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Motor build from Hell
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jason
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 12:20 pm    Post subject: Motor build from Hell Reply with quote

I'm building a SS motor and having problems everywhere. I had my case oil gallies tapped and when I got it back they tapped the oil relief one that I said not too. They also said we saw that your main bearing pin was ovaled so we fixed it for free. I was, really it's a new case. Took hours to get the relief deburred and moving correct and I'm assuming they messed up the pin hole that looked good when I dropped it off. I have a type 4 center main so I also had them drill the pin hole when it was there. They drilled it on wrong side. I even showed them the bearing so they could get it correct. Oil hole didn't line up so they made another one. I had a set of UDO lifters from about the time bad ones were around. Had those replaced. I scratched the journals on my crank trying to measure in bad light. Totally my fault, had that polished. Bought a pulley and had it machined for crank trigger. Decided to go with different one, my fault again. Web Cam I bought had the bolt holes indexed wrong. Not equal distances apart so it wouldn't bolt to my gear. It was also loose side to side so ovaling the hole would work but getting it centered, good luck. Tried different gears none of them fit. An adjustable with the little washers would have but mine weren't like that. Got a different cam all's good. Check backlash and it's all over. New cam gears, all good again. Bought a set of heads and asked if they would fit with cam and whatnot, they don't. Get another set of heads uncut and they hit. WTF. I also buy another set of cam gears, Magnum so I can fine tune it instead of the ones that only do 0,3,-3. Still can't get it right so I buy another cam. Still hit. Find that pistons are made wrong. Hard to figure out since there are no pictures of what the pistons are suppossed to look like. Get new pistons and measure the clearance for the cut. Send out heads and 2 months later receive them cut too much. During all of this I get my exhaust that clears all the tin. When I pick it up he says it won't, WTF. That's where I am at now, about 2 years in. I'm focusing on the body and doing the motor when the parts come in. Burning me out though with all the problems. Don't blame any parts vendors as nothings perfect but I have bad luck. Maybe because I want it within specs. Machinists are sloppy though, both of the ones I tried. FWIW, Every Berg part I have has been within spec and fit correct, crank, rods, pulley, oil pump and sump.

Parts so far:
2 sets of heads
2 sets of pistons
3 cam gear sets
2 sets of lifters
2 cams
2 pulleys

Luckily I returned most or sold the extras that were good. Only have extra cam. May have to sell the heads still, waiting on vendor. Head guy says he doesn't make mistakes, my measurements say otherwise. Not any ones fault, just check your parts.

Side note:
John at aircooled has been great at replacing the parts that aren't right that I get from him. I can also see how hard he has to work to earn some money with the shipping cutting into profits. Support them so they can stay around.
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[email protected]
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 12:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Motor build from Hell Reply with quote

it's a LOT of work to try to keep up with sloppy parts. Those on the consumer side of things have no idea how difficult it is sometimes dealing with the junk, and with guys that "don't care". We do our best, but often get stuck in the middle, and do our best to make it right.
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yamaducci
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 12:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Motor build from Hell Reply with quote

Wow you have had some bad luck and it probably started with, I will assume, a non-air-cooled VW machine shop. Also this sounds like where we have all been at least once. I haven't ever hear of someone having so many cam and gear issues ever.If you have been working with John it's easy. You just tell him what cam and gear you want and he asks if you want it stroke relieved and if yes; that's the way it comes and nothing hits. Bottom line is buy the best parts you can from the best people who know what they are doing. Then the rest is on you the "Builder".
Good luck and ask some questions.
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jason
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Motor build from Hell Reply with quote

The cam was issue once and CB gear set. Second set of gears was like engles but made by Magnum for someone, they were good but only adjustable by 3 degrees. Hitting is on piston to valves. Oh and it is a well known vw machine shop.
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spencerfvee
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Motor build from Hell Reply with quote

well come to what its like to build a motor .now you know why people that build motors. get the big bucks . what pisses me off. is when I ask a shop to do a job for me .and it comes back done wrong . and they tell me that's what you told me to do . I might as well talk to a wall . I just never go back to them . and they don't give a dam if I do come back or not . most shops like that don't last long then there gone .good luck spencerfvee
jason wrote:
I'm building a SS motor and having problems everywhere. I had my case oil gallies tapped and when I got it back they tapped the oil relief one that I said not too. They also said we saw that your main bearing pin was ovaled so we fixed it for free. I was, really it's a new case. Took hours to get the relief deburred and moving correct and I'm assuming they messed up the pin hole that looked good when I dropped it off. I have a type 4 center main so I also had them drill the pin hole when it was there. They drilled it on wrong side. I even showed them the bearing so they could get it correct. Oil hole didn't line up so they made another one. I had a set of UDO lifters from about the time bad ones were around. Had those replaced. I scratched the journals on my crank trying to measure in bad light. Totally my fault, had that polished. Bought a pulley and had it machined for crank trigger. Decided to go with different one, my fault again. Web Cam I bought had the bolt holes indexed wrong. Not equal distances apart so it wouldn't bolt to my gear. It was also loose side to side so ovaling the hole would work but getting it centered, good luck. Tried different gears none of them fit. An adjustable with the little washers would have but mine weren't like that. Got a different cam all's good. Check backlash and it's all over. New cam gears, all good again. Bought a set of heads and asked if they would fit with cam and whatnot, they don't. Get another set of heads uncut and they hit. WTF. I also buy another set of cam gears, Magnum so I can fine tune it instead of the ones that only do 0,3,-3. Still can't get it right so I buy another cam. Still hit. Find that pistons are made wrong. Hard to figure out since there are no pictures of what the pistons are suppossed to look like. Get new pistons and measure the clearance for the cut. Send out heads and 2 months later receive them cut too much. During all of this I get my exhaust that clears all the tin. When I pick it up he says it won't, WTF. That's where I am at now, about 2 years in. I'm focusing on the body and doing the motor when the parts come in. Burning me out though with all the problems. Don't blame any parts vendors as nothings perfect but I have bad luck. Maybe because I want it within specs. Machinists are sloppy though, both of the ones I tried. FWIW, Every Berg part I have has been within spec and fit correct, crank, rods, pulley, oil pump and sump.

Parts so far:
2 sets of heads
2 sets of pistons
3 cam gear sets
2 sets of lifters
2 cams
2 pulleys

Luckily I returned most or sold the extras that were good. Only have extra cam. May have to sell the heads still, waiting on vendor. Head guy says he doesn't make mistakes, my measurements say otherwise. Not any ones fault, just check your parts.

Side note:
John at aircooled has been great at replacing the parts that aren't right that I get from him. I can also see how hard he has to work to earn some money with the shipping cutting into profits. Support them so they can stay around.
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bugguy1967
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 5:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Motor build from Hell Reply with quote

I bought some manilla tags to go on all of my parts. I use bullets to explain exactly what I need. The tags are to be returned to me. If somethings not right, they fix it free. Not my fault that their machinist doesn't have common engine knowledge.
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[email protected]
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 6:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Motor build from Hell Reply with quote

it's a lot of the reason Jake got out of the VW engine building biz. It has gotten so difficult to deal with parts quality deviations, it's really tough to actually make money (make a living) anymore.
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esde
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 7:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Motor build from Hell Reply with quote

I have yet to have an issue with a set of Magnum cam gears, but the rest have been hit or miss. Easier to just buy magnums and not worry
Sucks about the rest, for sure most have had a project like that before..
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Clatter
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 7:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Motor build from Hell Reply with quote

^^^So True^^^

Been There Done That. Got the t-shirt. Too many times now.

Having a guy like John on your side to filter out the CRAP parts people sell is key to the process..

You just cannot order parts from shiny magazine ads and put them together anymore. It just simply won't work!
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spencerfvee
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 8:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Motor build from Hell Reply with quote

right on john john a lot of guys are getting out of building vw motors .and a lot of guys stopped building vw air cooled cars because of the junk out there being sold. and we all know who the biggest seller of junk is . lol people think all you have to do .is put all the parts together to build a motor and they should fit just like a puzzle going together .not lol . new engine tin being sold is junk .I just don't understand why they make a part and nothing fits out of the box . you have to bend it. cut it. sometimes drill it .to make it fit on a motor. this all takes time to do it .the other day I was working on a motor and the air defector that is used between the cyls. was made so thin it would not stay in place on the studs . the fan housing have to be cut to fit the case most of the time .so the alt. will fit on the alt. stand a big pain in the ass to do . cycl. tin has to be bent into shape and it goes on and on .china tin sucks I am sure a lot of guys have there own stories to tell about parts that don't fit. my heart goes out to guys building a vw motor for the first time trying to fit the engine tin on there motor . spencerfvee
[email protected] wrote:
it's a lot of the reason Jake got out of the VW engine building biz. It has gotten so difficult to deal with parts quality deviations, it's really tough to actually make money (make a living) anymore.
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mark tucker
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:35 am    Post subject: Re: Motor build from Hell Reply with quote

Ive never built a ss Harley motor, but I did get a set of the aluminum cylinders to look at putting them on vw motor, Im kinda lost on just what your issues are. I do understand cam bolt pattern not quite right.
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Tobias Bylund
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 1:00 am    Post subject: Re: Motor build from Hell Reply with quote

SS as in Super Squishy motor, not an Harley S&S engine? thats what i took it at least hearing of interference between piston and valves and retarding/advancing the cam....
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