In-line AC System | In Progress

[agon.parts]

[?Waldo?]

Thank you for the definitive answer.

As has been mentioned by myself and others, having both 'hot' and 'cold' sides exposed to the air in the vehicle interior, any heat that is moved from the cold side to the hot side will remix in the interior of the vehicle and there will be no cooling effect. The extra heat generated by the device itself in moving the heat from the cold side to the hot side will be added to the vehicle making the end result that you will add heat energy to the vehicle.

Here's a quote from one of your early posts in this thread:

[Terry Kay]

I would most certainly be interested in the final data of this experiment.
Ambient temps, final temp inside of the vehicle, with how many banks of the coolers, how they were powered up for how long, with what for power to get to the anticipated temp inside of the van.

In life there is no free lunch, you're going to have to pay for this allegid miracle AC set up one way or another.

Interesting.
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T.K.

[Howesight]

Dave and Forrest:

I am all for a respectful dialogue on technology and its application to our antique vehicles. I meant no insult to Forrest in using Wile E. Coyote for a bit of levity and apologize if it was taken that way. Having said that, even great minds have proposed unworkable ideas, such as Tesla proposing wireless world-wide mains power supply (and falsely claiming he made it work).

I concede that for isolated spot cooling in the ovens we call Vanagons, the Peltier approach may be doable. Is spot cooling what you envision, Forrest?
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'86 Syncro Westy SVX

[Terry Kay]

I believe that this exersize in free AC is beyond Tesla.

Enrico Fermi would be the guy to solve this equasion.

This is one of those quests for perpetual motion, which I am pretty sure will not be solved in the Vanagon Forum at the samba.com.

Won't happen.
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T.K.

[90Doka_Guy]

[?Waldo?]

^^^ Very well said. ^^^

[Abscate]

So as I Understand it, with both hi and low temp inside the Bus, if the interior of the bus is considered to be the closed system, this unit is a.....

6 amp * 14 Volt ...approximately 84 watt heater.

Please consider retitling the thread for accuracy.

* I got the units right this time!
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.ssS!

[bobbyblack]

Forrest:

Keep up the designing, and testing, great to see this in progress. Valuable portions of this thread that I see as "in progress":

1: test this unit inside a large cooler or similar enclosure, check overall temps of whole boxed in unit/space.

2: take a flexible vent pipe, such as a clothes dryer exhaust vent, make a loop with a small fan inside it, kind of a doughnut looking thing connecting the two ends of your design -- cooling fins inside, heating fins not included. Blow a normal box fan, such as a household window/box fan at the outside. Take temp inside the flexible loop.

Regards!
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'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch

[?Waldo?]

I was thinking that a good analogy for this project is to think of 'Heat' as 'Water' and 'Cold' as 'Dryness'. You cannot create dryness except by removing water. The peltier is like a water pump that moves water from the drier side to the wetter side. For each unit of water that it moves to the wet side, it also pumps an additional unit of water from outside the vehicle into the wet side. If you remove a ml of water from the dry side to the wet side, you end up with 1ml less of water on the dry side, but 2ml MORE water on the wet side than when you started running the peltier. If you do not vent the wet side to the exterior of the vehicle, the amount of water inside the vehicle progressively increases because none of the water can leave the vehicle and the way the peltier functions, it just keeps adding water. You cannot use the 'dry' air to 'dry' the wet side because exposing the drier air to the wet side, just makes the dry air more wet than it was when you started.

[Abscate]

OK, I stand corrected.

I caclulate an 84W Peltier will lower the Van temperature by 15 degrees Nivlek - using the more common Nivlek units used by AC world, but one Nivlek is the same size as a degree Centrigrade

ABS(Nivlek) = Centrigrade
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.ssS!

[agon.parts]

Thanks for the comments, analogies and calculations.

I just received a dual-channel thermometer and I will be doing some tests in the near future.

I will be testing v1, however, I am in the process of designing v2 that will be more efficient, simplified, and addresses condensate.
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Forrest Walker Whitmore
AGON

FREEBIES: https://1drv.ms/u/s!AkqzgREEtE9Aj7poRLxLuW-oGORuiQ?e=eSKThT

[Synthead]

How did your tests go?

[agon.parts]

[Aryana]

I gotta grab a seat for this project!

[geodude]

Solar radiation is about 890 watts per sq. meter at sea level on a sunny day. The exposed surface area of a Vanagon is at least 3-4 sq. meters so you are looking at 3000+ watts of energy hitting the car. Even with most of that being reflected and re-radiated back out into the environment you are looking at hundreds of watts of energy being added to the interior of the car. An 84 watt peltier cell will never keep up. Not to mention there is nowhere for the heat to go but back into the van!
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1988 GL Camper
1991 Multivan — the basket case