Oil Filter vs. Bigger oil pan Sump

[david69]

Attention experienced VW owners and mechanics. In your opinion, is it more efficient and better for the motor oil to stay clean and keep it cooler to Tap and Full Flow the case and add an oil filter or add a bigger oil sump and bolt it onto my existing oil pan. I have a Type 3 1915cc motor and was wondering which is the better way to go. Or would doing both be the best result. Any advice would be great appreciated. Thank you

[W1K1]

the type 3 case mod is the easiest way to run oil lines to an external filter, and oil cooler.

adding a sump increases the oil capacity, and you can add a filter to the sump with CB's thin line sumps, but there is no increase in oil cooling so once the extra oil is hot in the sump, the engine has a hard time cooling it down.

I went with the external filter, sandwich thermostat, and external cooler with CB's thin line sump.

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1973 super
1965 squareback 1500E
1971 bay window westy- subi swap

[david69]

Thanks a lot W1K1. I'm a complete beginner at this stuff but read how all you Mastes trick your cars out. So get a thin sump, external filter and cooler. Can you recommend a reputable brand? Thanks. a lot bro

[Nate M.]

IMHO there are completely different reasons for having a filter and/or a sump that really have nothing to do with each other.

Adding a FF oil filter on ANY motor is a good thing IMHO It can be a PITA with a type3, but it's worth the effort and expense because it adds longevity to the motor by filtering the oil. Whereas the ONLY way to remove contaminants from the oil is to dump it regularly (why VWs typically need oil changes every 3K miles). Adding a filter can extent that especially if you run synthetic easily to 5K+ depending on the type of driving you do.

Adding a deep sump for most motors is un-necessary for most people. The real reason for a deep sump is to control oil slosh and the oil pump starvation associated with it when launching off the line or in hard cornering during racing. People often add a sump to lower high oil temps; this is a "bandaid for a broken leg" approach IMHO. An engine will run hot if the combination of parts/tuning is wrong to begin with. Adding a sump will only prolong the time it takes to get hot. On a racing engine, under race conditions a sump can help in this regard because of the heat build-up created at WOT for long periods. But on a street motor that has been well designed and tuned, a sump only masks poor tuning and/or engine design.
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Regards,

Nate M.

Squarsche build
Heavy Metal Affliction feature

For heaven's sake, put a type4 and a Porsche 5-speed in there. . . It's the right thing to do!!

[Clatter]

A sump is also used with a serious drag motor,
Especially with a big oil pump..

A high-winding motor driven in anger will take most all of the (only) stock 2 1/2 quarts, and pump it into the left head..
It cannot run back to the sump fast enough, and the motor starves for oil.

Hence the need for more..

There are other ways to increase oil capacity that don't hinder ground clearance.
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Glenn]

An oil filter filters the oil.

A deep sump adds capacity so you don't have starvation at high rpm. A simple will only help stabilize the oil temp. It will take longer the get hot and longdr to cool.

If you want to cool the oil you need a oil cooler.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

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[Tram]

[david69]

Thank you everyone. Looks like oil filter will be the next purchase. Thanks again. All the best

[Max Welton]

[david69]

Hello guys thanks for all the feedback I really appreciate it I was wondering if you knew offhand approximately how much it would cost to have a shop drill and tap the set up for the external oil filter would cost I was quoted $1300 and was wondering if that's a fair price or of the guys crazy . Any input would be greatly appreciate it thank you guys once again

[Max Welton]

That sort of number might include disassembling the entire engine so that the tapping operation can be preformed on the bare case half. That is the best way to do it, especially the way W1K1 illustrated.

I did the more traditional mod (type-1 style) and have done it both during engine buildup and on an assembled engine.

Max
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1967 Type-3 Fastback
Under the Knife https://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=151582
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[david69]

Thank you Max for your input and hug really appreciate it . In your honest opinion do you really think and oil filter is worth that much money he makes that big of a difference on the motor? That's a lot of money just to put on extra oil filter I'm not sure ask her or field is worth that much for the motor I rather change the oil every 3000 miles and maybe put a deeper oil pants sump. What do you think

[W1K1]

I ran one of the CB filter sumps for a few years, they work fine for a stock RPM revving motor. But like we said before, once the oil gets hot the stock cooler may not be able to cool it down.
That was my problem, I could drive all day around town, but if I was on the highway, the oil temps would rise to around 225F in a half hour. Then I would have to sit and let it cool down.

http://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/1738.htm
_________________
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/jim_martin_engine_build.php

1973 super
1965 squareback 1500E
1971 bay window westy- subi swap

[david69]

Thank you Max for your time and effort in helping me I really appreciate it I'm as green as it tomato one comes to VWs, All this information is been a great help . By the way who would you recommend for shocks I'm not really into lowering the car and having to sit on the floor I like a nice smooth stiff drive that holds and hugs the ground very nicely I don't like the balance out of my seat if I were to hit a bump what Do you think the best shock system would be

[Max Welton]

[Max Welton]

[ChiapC]

In case anybody is looking for the same info I just was. I wanted to clarify which was in and out when utilizing the type 3 external oil filter.

The line closest to the crank pulley is oil to the filter. Line closest to the transaxle is the oil from center of the filter to the case.

Located that info here:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...p;start=20