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bobnorman Samba Newfoundlander
Joined: August 09, 2010 Posts: 1389 Location: Newfoundland
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Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:18 am Post subject: Re: My 1966 Fastback build up |
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Evilgtiguy wrote: |
I'm going to patch the pan edges and where a couple holes are. I agree this will be a good learning experience for me. I'm trying to find a place near me that sells POR-15 or Masterseries (Stratford /Kitchener /London) area. |
I've bought POR at Canadian Tire recently. Also, NAPA sells it. _________________ Air does not freeze. Air does not boil.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=289807 |
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7544 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 9:36 am Post subject: Re: My 1966 Fastback build up |
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It's my understanding that POOR 15 doesn't stick to clean metal - it has to be rusted a bit.
To take a freshly-blasted pan, and set it outside for a while, to 'rust up' a bit first, seems a bit counter-intuitive..
Spraying Masterseries from a gun, on a blasted pan is a far different deal than brushing POOR 15 over rusty, holey metal.
Again,
Once you have the thing blasted, you will be able to see where the Swiss-Cheese areas are.
Big, thin, holey areas might change your plan of attack, depending upon how bad they are, and where.
I'm really surprised at how good you pan looks overall!
Look at your rear seat bulkhead - that thing looks mint! (from the pics here at least)
Those things rust along the bottom so much that you just can't get them in good shape anymore anywhere..
Where pans usually all rust, at the low areas, yours looks OK,
And where they more rarely rust, along the pan seal, is where your rust is bad.
That will make it far easier to get patch sections from other pans.
Unless,
It's hiding it's sins from you somehow.
After going through all the gyrations to clean my pan up,
It would have been SO much easier to just take the whole thing in to be blasted, then 'dusted off' with a thin coat of epoxy. _________________ Bus Motor Build
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Evilgtiguy Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2012 Posts: 241 Location: Perth, Ontario
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Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 12:10 pm Post subject: Re: My 1966 Fastback build up |
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Clatter wrote: |
It's my understanding that POOR 15 doesn't stick to clean metal - it has to be rusted a bit.
To take a freshly-blasted pan, and set it outside for a while, to 'rust up' a bit first, seems a bit counter-intuitive..
Spraying Masterseries from a gun, on a blasted pan is a far different deal than brushing POOR 15 over rusty, holey metal.
Again,
Once you have the thing blasted, you will be able to see where the Swiss-Cheese areas are.
Big, thin, holey areas might change your plan of attack, depending upon how bad they are, and where.
I'm really surprised at how good you pan looks overall!
Look at your rear seat bulkhead - that thing looks mint! (from the pics here at least)
Those things rust along the bottom so much that you just can't get them in good shape anymore anywhere..
Where pans usually all rust, at the low areas, yours looks OK,
And where they more rarely rust, along the pan seal, is where your rust is bad.
That will make it far easier to get patch sections from other pans.
Unless,
It's hiding it's sins from you somehow.
After going through all the gyrations to clean my pan up,
It would have been SO much easier to just take the whole thing in to be blasted, then 'dusted off' with a thin coat of epoxy. |
The pans are pretty solid like how they appear in the photo. There's a hole in the passenger side just aft of the seat track and a small hole the diameter of a pencil. Most of the carnage is where the gasket meets the pan. I would attempt at patching the pans as I can't make them worse and if I do have some issues one of my friends is a welder by trade so I can conscript him hopefully. I'd like to try myself first though. _________________ 66 sunroof Fastback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=590530
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supersuk Samba Member
Joined: December 20, 2010 Posts: 958 Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
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Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 12:12 pm Post subject: Re: My 1966 Fastback build up |
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I agree with Clatter. I had really bad luck with POR 15 here in Hawaii. We don't have Masterseries available, but I was able to find KBS Rust Seal. I really like that stuff. Works well and sticks like glue. Only problem is that the KBS stuff is UV sensitive. It will break down in a matter of months if constantly exposed to the sun. _________________ 68 Fastback Build: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5396323#5396323 |
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Evilgtiguy Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2012 Posts: 241 Location: Perth, Ontario
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Evilgtiguy Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2012 Posts: 241 Location: Perth, Ontario
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Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 7:20 pm Post subject: Re: My 1966 Fastback build up |
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So I got a welder. I welded some support bars in so that I can remove my doors and eventually replace the rockers. I have been practising quite a bit but I still have some more work to do but I'm getting there
_________________ 66 sunroof Fastback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=590530
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7544 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:01 pm Post subject: Re: My 1966 Fastback build up |
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Nice!
Those look _damn_ good for a newbie welder..
You sure you haven't done this before?
Unlike my workspace, you get the luxury of welding indoors!
Live it and love it, Daddy-O!! _________________ Bus Motor Build
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MonT3 Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012 Posts: 1988 Location: South Dakota
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Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:01 pm Post subject: Re: My 1966 Fastback build up |
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Think you got a good handle on it. Only thing I can recommend before starting to cut into the shell is to have a plan and start in one area and work methodically as not to bounce around. Maybe tackle some of the smaller issues to get familiar and comfortable with welding on the actual metal before tackling the more challenging pieces. Just have a plan of attack while you go at it. Look forward to your updates and pics. BTW, Your welding looks good for just recently picking it up the skill. Good job!! _________________ MonT3
67 Squareback
64 Squareback
63 Squareback
Engine rebuild
Trailer rebuild |
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7544 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:02 pm Post subject: Re: My 1966 Fastback build up |
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Let me know what your patch-piece parts list looks like.
I got a ton of extra pieces left over from clean cars I cut up.. _________________ Bus Motor Build
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7544 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:53 am Post subject: Re: My 1966 Fastback build up |
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Something else is, I didn't see any diagonal braces?
After doing my car,
I'll say you can never underestimate how much things will move around..
Seems like you could throw dome diagonals going in different directions inside there pretty easy,
And you wouldn't have to weld to the car's shell any more,
You could just go diagonal from the bars you have, to others.
If that makes any sense...
So stoked to see someone digging in and saving this one.
hat poor car was crying for a hero for years.. _________________ Bus Motor Build
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Evilgtiguy Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2012 Posts: 241 Location: Perth, Ontario
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:14 am Post subject: Re: My 1966 Fastback build up |
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Clatter wrote: |
Nice!
Those look _damn_ good for a newbie welder..
You sure you haven't done this before?
Unlike my workspace, you get the luxury of welding indoors!
Live it and love it, Daddy-O!! |
I've never welded before in my life. My wife bought me the welder for my birthday in July and I just started last week. Thanks for the compliments! Every weld I do I learn something new. Are you thinking I should have diagonal going laterally or horizontally (across the body)? _________________ 66 sunroof Fastback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=590530
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W1K1 Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2004 Posts: 4921 Location: Southern AB
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 11:56 am Post subject: Re: My 1966 Fastback build up |
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yes, basically the same as por 15 but seems a lot easier to use. I used it on my axle tubes when I swapped my transmission a couple years ago, still shiny, no peeling _________________ http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/jim_martin_engine_build.php
1973 super
1965 squareback 1500E
1971 bay window westy- subi swap |
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eyetzr Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2013 Posts: 1425 Location: Toronto, Ontario. Canada
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 5:19 pm Post subject: Re: My 1966 Fastback build up |
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Clatter wrote: |
Nice!
Those look _damn_ good for a newbie welder..
You sure you haven't done this before?
Unlike my workspace, you get the luxury of welding indoors!
Live it and love it, Daddy-O!! |
He has no choice up here in the great white north. Car is looking good. _________________ I think he meant "rare", as in "not well-done" |
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MonT3 Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012 Posts: 1988 Location: South Dakota
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Evilgtiguy Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2012 Posts: 241 Location: Perth, Ontario
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Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 1:53 pm Post subject: Re: My 1966 Fastback build up |
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I've been slacked off in regards to working on my car unfortunately but with 2 kids under 6 yrs old I guess that I have a valid excuse or reason. Anyhow I started the process of removing my sunroof to repair the rotted sections on the rear of the roof. I figured that the best plan if attack would be to use a Dremel and cut the welds on the brackets and hopefully the tray would be free.
The plan worked somewhat but I'm struggling to dislodge the sunroof tray or whatever it's called from the roof near the front half of the car. The seam sealer is holding it on there like a mofo! I'm almost inclined to just leave it be and cut the rotted roof sections out and perform the repair with the assembly in place.
Have a look and let me know what you think.
_________________ 66 sunroof Fastback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=590530
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Evilgtiguy Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2012 Posts: 241 Location: Perth, Ontario
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Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:44 pm Post subject: Re: My 1966 Fastback build up |
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So I started repairing my roof. I figured I had to start somewhere so what the hell right? There is a lot of birdsh!t welds and a decent stitch welds in there some where. I'm having issues blowing through metal at times not sure of it's just the metal being thin or my settings. Anyhow critique away. I'm going to spend the rest of my life grinding these damn welds. I will just have to get better at welding sheet metal so I don't have to grind as much.
_________________ 66 sunroof Fastback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=590530
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22422 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:37 pm Post subject: Re: My 1966 Fastback build up |
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Wow, that looks like the roof of my 65 Notch, back when I got it. It had all sorts of rust around that factory hole.
What you might want to try, is tack welding the patch piece in place, then put another tack weld in between the 2 tacks, then go around and split those and so on. This will help you to control the heat in the metal, and avoid wapage. It'll also join the patch t the parent metal in a while as you keep filling in the areas between the tacks. It seems that your tack welds are nice and clean with good penetration. By doing like I suggested, you control the heat, and you'll end up with LESS grinding to do (your tack welds will be flatter after you get more practice). I hate grinding, so I try to minimize as much of it as I can. Plus doing so will help you with your larger gaps. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7544 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:18 am Post subject: Re: My 1966 Fastback build up |
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And away you go!!!
My suggestion is to do as much hidden welding now as you can.
Right now, when you are on the steep part of the learning curve,
things will get better with practice.
So,
What I did was 'practice' on the floor pan and inner fenders and things that won't show.
Plus, the pan is thicker metal, and far easier to weld on.
That roof area is going to be front/center when the car is done,
And you are going to want to have your skills as far along as you can when you do it.
That said, controlling heat is -everything-.
Make a single tack, blow it with air and/or quench with a wet rag,
Then make another tack,
Then cool as above,
Then adjust with hammer/dolly,
Repeat.
You simply cannot go too slow on a big flat panel like that.
Hardest move you will have to do on the whole car...
Google 'hammer welding', as that's what they used to call the skill that's called 'welding in patches' today.. _________________ Bus Motor Build
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7544 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:26 am Post subject: Re: My 1966 Fastback build up |
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Another big part of controlling the heat is during grinding.
If you are getting any purple or tan coloration from your grinding,
Then you are warping the metal.
One thing that worked for me is using one of those thin cut-off wheels on end.
A mistake I made was just using a regular grinding wheel,
And leaning on it like I was working on a bridge or a dock or something...
Also, I ended up grinding metal adjacent to the welds in my effort to get things smooth looking.
Made things so thin, that I had to patch more.
So be sure to -only- grind your welds.
Just like welding, it will be disastrous to be in a hurry...
Another reason new dads don't restore cars!! _________________ Bus Motor Build
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Evilgtiguy Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2012 Posts: 241 Location: Perth, Ontario
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Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:49 am Post subject: Re: My 1966 Fastback build up |
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Good advice guys. I figured that I need to step away from the roof anyways. There are some areas that are hidden from view that I can address and repair without trying to make it "art".
I hear you on the new dad thing. I'm too deep in this to give up so I'm going to keep on going. It has to be saved. My friends think I'm nuts and that I should've bought a turn key car with power but when this is done I'll enjoy it more. _________________ 66 sunroof Fastback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=590530
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