When to convert to disc brakes?

[sweetguth]

Hey guys,

I currently have all drum brakes. And with fiberglass being so light stopping isn't much a problem. But, with better engines and faster speeds, I am wonder when is disc brakes stopping necessary for safety.

For example, would disc brakes be necessary after installing a 2.5 suby?

[Dale M.]

Disks just lock up tires faster and you start to skid out of control sooner...

I run a 2084 at about 110 HP at wheels and don't have any problem stopping maybe 1450 lb car with "standard" brakes.... Had 2180 at 120 hp at the wheels in 1360 pound buggy as autocross car and only brake mod was type 3 rear brakes .... If you feel you need more brakes go to vw resurrection (salvage) places and get set of type 3 rears, everything just bolts on with no mods...

Dale
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“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.

"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
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All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...

[vwracerdave]

I have 150 HP 2165cc in my Dunebuggy and I have no problems stopping with all drum brakes.
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2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK

[cudabear]

I had a 2 seat buggy , with a 2387 W/IDAs . IT was fast &
it stopped great.. Use quality new shoes good Round drums wheel cylinders new German hoses, do it right & it will stop straight and quick. I now have a turbo fuel injected inter cooled buggy with 245hp @ the wheels & it has drum all around, it stops GREAT

[heywebonya]

I switched over this year to discs to reduce maintenance and I needed to replace several stock parts. The cost of replacing both drums, cylinders and shoes was approaching similar levels to a disc brake set (within $150) and the reduced maintenance was a bonus.

Put discs on rear only.
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If I knew what I was doing; I wouldn't be building a buggy!

[joescoolcustoms]

When I built my buggy, except for the rear wide five type III drums, I used everything new and the best quality I could buy. New German Thing front drums, (wide 5 and widest stock shoe) and installed type III wheel cylinders up front. Type III rear drum brakes too.

Like everyone here, they worked. I finished it in June '14 and drove it across the US and back doing coast-to-coast.

In the winter of '14, '15, I came across a real deal on a set of wide 5 front disc brakes new, and bought them. Installed them on my buggy front. WOW! What a huge difference in stopping performance! In '15 I made the trip across the US again, (different route) and a huge difference in brake fade response and pressure it takes to stop the buggy. My wife even commented on the difference when she drove it.

Yes drum brakes work fine. As does a Flip Phone. But I-Phones are much nicer to work with.
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Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race

Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.

Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone

[sweetguth]

[EVfun]

[joescoolcustoms]

Only change is the residual valve installed. The buggies I build to sell all get disc brakes, (Cost is the same on a new build) and they get residual valves F&R, and a Proportioning valve for the front in case the new owner wants to custom the feel. But I leave the valves at 100% and do not have a problem locking them up.

With the disc, I can just lay my foot on the brakes now and it stops. The drums I had to apply a lot of leg pressure. Both systems locked the brakes up about the same, the fronts just milliseconds before the rears. The disc just take so much less driver input to stop, and no fade in the Appalachian mountains of VW, or the American Rockies, or the Canadian Rockies.

Several people have driven it before and after the conversion. All like the after better.

A buddy from NJ drove his buggy to my house on June 14th this year, parked his buggy in my garage. The morning of the 15th we jumped into my buggy and departed for Alaska. He had not driven my buggy before, and we switched driving task each day. He drove mine for 4000 miles and never locked my brakes up once.
_________________
Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race

Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.

Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone

[woodoctr]

My Sebring kit car is on a full length VW chassis with much thicker fiberglass than most buggies.... so my weight is up around 1800 pound. Many years ago I had a 2.8 v6 as modified/maxed out as you could wring horsepower out of that motor (120 h.p. or so) and had just front discs with the type 3 drums on the back.... no problems... drove it anywhere. Horsepower to weight to braking pretty balanced. Then I went to a 225 h.p. carbed rotary. Whoa.... things no longer so balanced.... added rear discs. Then I supercharged that motor to around 300 h.p. and whoa.... added proportioning valve, played with master cylinder, etc. Now all things balanced again... Biggest factors for me with discs improving braking is (1.) driving in the rain and (2.)driving in mountains/switchbacks. At my current h.p. level I couldn't imagine being on drums in either of those situations. Coming down out of the mountains after some "brisk" driving you can spit on my rotors and hear the sizzle but no fade, no drama.

[slalombuggy]

When I rebuilt my buggy a few years ago I went to 4 wheel disk. I will never drive another ACVW with drum brakes. The control and stopping power is FAR superior to drum brakes. In fact I took a friends car with a 1914 in it for a drive last week and the drum brakes scared the shit out of me especially on the freeway. I tried all the usual tricks trying to get drum brakes to perform good on the track and street and nothing ever came close to simply installing disk brakes. If you're adding power, not a bad idea to add braking power, especially with a heavier subi engine and cooling system.

brad

[EVfun]

[joescoolcustoms]

I cannot answer what Brand the disc I have on the front are. I bought them off of this site. Labeled as NIB, (New In Box), but I did not get a box or instructions with them.

They are not Ghia Callipers. They use a floating calliper and are dual piston callipers.

My rear brakes are Type III wide 5 drums brakes. Only disc on front.

I am at the North Carolina Outer Bank Islands right now. Drove the buggy 524 miles here, and met two others to do a Pre-Run for the Manx Club's Manx On the Banx, (MOTB) '16 event in the second week of October. Once I get home, I will pull a front wheel and take some pictures of the set up.
_________________
Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race

Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.

Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone

[joescoolcustoms]

Tonight I changed out my "beach" tires to my rough tread tires for work tomorrow and had a chance to photo the disc brakes I have.

When I bought them, they were new, never used, but not in their original boxes and did not come with any paperwork and no name on them. But the price was nice for me.

Separate bracket bolts to stock VW spindle, then a caliper bracket bolts to the spindle bracket. So the caliper is a single piston floating unit.

Since changing to disc on the front, (Type II drums on rear), I have put about 27,000 miles on them. Pads are about 1/2 worn. I will put another 3500 to 4000 miles on the buggy before Winter, and then I will try to figure out what I have and get a couple replacement pad sets.
_________________
Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race

Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.

Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone

[EVfun]

Thanks for the pictures. I've seen those kits and I have no idea what caliper they are using or how large the piston is. You are using them with Type 3 rear brakes, right? Are you using the stock type 3 rear wheel cylinders, or something in a different size?
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[joescoolcustoms]

I am using wide 5 type three rear brakes and the largest wheel cylinder for it. If memory serves correct, 22.5 MM cylinder. High quality brake shoes on the rear.
_________________
Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race

Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.

Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone

[jsturtlebuggy]

Joe,
The disc brakes you have appear to be a CB Performance kit.
The Super Beetle front wheel cylinder is 23.8mm in size and works well for use with the type III rear brakes as shoes size and drum diameter are the same for both.
The Super Beetle wheel cylinders were what I was using in my type III rear brakes before switching to 4piston disc brakes on the rear. Disc brakes are nice to have if you go through many water crossings.
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Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960