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air-h2o-air Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2015 Posts: 579
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Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 8:59 pm Post subject: Re: Death Foam??!! :( |
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Frode, yes I did when repairing mine |
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pernest Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2008 Posts: 265 Location: Jacksonville FL
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Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:36 pm Post subject: Re: Death Foam??!! :( |
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Removing death foam is like removing the brain from a mummy thru the nostril. That's how i thought of it before beginning the job.
I did cut out a small panel on the inside just behind the rear window where the foam is located. I cut it with a dremmel and fashioned a plate to stick over the square hole when finished. Then, I got behind the motor and began pulling pieces of foam out with a coat hanger bent over at the business end. It takes awhile --- you just have to act like you're trying to get all of that brain out of the soon to be mummy. Thru the inside hole, I osphood any rusted metal that I saw and repainted it.
Did this 8 to 10 years ago and haven't seen a spec of rust since. |
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Hatracks Samba Member
Joined: July 10, 2016 Posts: 659 Location: Renton, WA
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Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:53 pm Post subject: Re: Death Foam??!! :( |
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I just did the same repairs on mine and ended up cutting 3-4 holes per side to get all of the foam scraped out including 1 under the fender line to get all of the junk that fell down.
_________________ 73 Super Build |
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Horance Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2015 Posts: 88 Location: Toledo
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Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 5:53 pm Post subject: Re: Death Foam??!! :( |
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@$&! PO bondo-ed over the rust. (see below)
Has any one used the patch panels that are offered for the fender bead area by cip1?
(http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=TAB%2D400%2D521)
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Hatracks Samba Member
Joined: July 10, 2016 Posts: 659 Location: Renton, WA
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Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 5:57 pm Post subject: Re: Death Foam??!! :( |
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Since you have to cut so high I would either find a donor car and cut out the full piece you need or just make it yourself. Most of the aftermarket sheet metal I have received has taken just as much work as making it yourself.
Also I would keep taking the paint off in the entire area, if he bondo'd over rust there may be more. _________________ 73 Super Build |
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EXJAY Samba Member
Joined: October 04, 2009 Posts: 1109 Location: Myrtle Beach, SC
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Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 8:26 pm Post subject: Re: Death Foam??!! :( |
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Getting a good donor piece is the way to go if its that bad. _________________ EXJAY
'74 Superbeetle (Family owned since new)
'73 181 Thing (sold) |
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air-h2o-air Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2015 Posts: 579
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Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 8:32 pm Post subject: Re: Death Foam??!! :( |
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not many donors available that arent already rusty |
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Horance Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2015 Posts: 88 Location: Toledo
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Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:29 pm Post subject: Re: Death Foam??!! :( |
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air-h2o-air wrote: |
not many donors available that aren't already rusty |
That is the problem, I am in Toledo oh lots of salt, and few options as all the salvage yards in my area do not have ANY air cooled cars, and if they did they would be rusty as well.
I am going to get working to form a panel for the sections at the chrome trim area and above the fold in the body going towards the glass area.
Worst case I will cut it out, remove the foam and clear out any debris and wiring and using a rust proofing tube sprayer por 15 every thing inside. Then using strips of steal and 3m panel adhesive rebuild the Swiss cheese body area. That being said I still need steel nuts wielded into a steal body area to bolt the finder to.
As for sanding more you bet your boots I am, a shame in a small way whoever did the body work did it well save for the bondo filled rust. If it wasn't for bondo squeezed in the holes underneath i would say they did a good job. |
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Hatracks Samba Member
Joined: July 10, 2016 Posts: 659 Location: Renton, WA
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Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:59 pm Post subject: Re: Death Foam??!! :( |
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Horance wrote: |
As for sanding more you bet your boots I am, a shame in a small way whoever did the body work did it well save for the bondo filled rust. If it wasn't for bondo squeezed in the holes underneath i would say they did a good job. |
Mine was the same way, the paint was bubbled and the bondo had been there for years right over the rust but the body work was really good and I would of never known without the bubbles.
Making the panels/pieces was not that bad. I rough shaped the steel by bending it into a vice and hammering angle into it to get the crease where I wanted. Then tack welded areas and hammered it into shape and welding as I went.
I can take some more close up pictures tomorrow if you want of the panels. My welds are not pretty but they are functional
If you want full panels last time I talked to Averys Air Cooled he said he had some, you could always give him a call Monday. _________________ 73 Super Build |
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Horance Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2015 Posts: 88 Location: Toledo
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Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:17 am Post subject: Re: Death Foam??!! :( |
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Hatracks wrote: |
Making the panels/pieces was not that bad. I rough shaped the steel by bending it into a vice and hammering angle into it to get the crease where I wanted. Then tack welded areas and hammered it into shape and welding as I went.
I can take some more close up pictures tomorrow if you want of the panels. My welds are not pretty but they are functional |
yes making the patches can be "fun" but for the wield in nuts I am willing to cut and trim a preformed panel and pay to have it wielded right. I have a cheep wire welder but i suck at welding and this will show.
I will use a long shank wire wheel on a drill on the inside and use pro-patch on the pin holes, but i will not know how bad it is until i cut some holes in it. |
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Horance Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2015 Posts: 88 Location: Toledo
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Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:00 am Post subject: Death Foam??!! :( Patch panel update |
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I received my box from CIP1 and her is a quick idea of the fit. It goes back to tuck under the deck lid, but I will be cutting short of that.
The bolts appear to be only wielded at the corners with a gap on each edge, this will be sealed with por-15 patch.
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ROCKOROD71 Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2012 Posts: 2770 Location: Boston, MA
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Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:30 am Post subject: Re: Death Foam??!! :( |
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I have been following this particular thread, and other death foam threads for some time. I think it would be helpful for those experiencing these issues to post what year bug we are dealing with along with a description of how extensive the rust is. I have a 1971 with the flow through vents, and I have owned it in New England since 1995. There is no death foam rust on it, nor has there ever been. Not sure if it even has foam in 71 or still using the pillows at that time, I've never opened it up to see. However, I have noticed a trend just in my reading that most of these death foam bugs seem to be 73, 74, 75, 76. Consequently I was having a discussion with a Samba member who is active on the Baywindow forum (he was welding up my 77 Westy) about some rust issues at his shop and the conversation turned to these middle 70s years and the fact that despite what model or even brand, a lot of cars in those years seemed to rust away and have all gone to the crusher in greater numbers. He said he talked to someone who worked in the steel industry at the time who said that the steel itself was different. Now, coming from ME this is all just a tall tale, merely speculation, but I did bring up to this person at the time that I noticed the death foam issue in the bugs all seem to be from those mid-70s model cars. I'm sure there is no way to really confirm it without undertaking some kind of statistical survey, etc. but might be something to consider when buying a bug, to avoid those mid-70s years or at least work that into a potential repair budget. _________________ 1971 STD BEETLE- DD-1st car, 1st love. keepin' it stock! 1600DP, Solex 34-3 Mexi Bosch SVDA Dist NOW w/POINTS
1977 WESTY "KrustyKamper" 2L FI
79SuperVert wrote: |
30 years from now, the next guy may not want your girlfriend, but he may want your classic car, depending on how nice you were to it. |
asiab3 wrote: |
Careful guys, a petulant child can grow up to be president these days. |
**winter drivers: no survivors!**rust warrior**#keepbodyshopsbusy** |
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Tim Donahoe Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2012 Posts: 11739 Location: Redding, CA
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Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:08 pm Post subject: Re: Death Foam??!! :( |
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Rock, I have a 1974, and have no death foam issues. When I bought the car in 2012, it had been garaged for at least eight years, but the PO told me that when he first saw the bug, it was sitting outside--looking very sad. So who knows how long it had been out in the weather.
The conclusion I've drawn is that something had changed in the way VW installed the lower, interior seal, causing it to leak from exterior moisture entering the crescents. Perhaps the seal material changed, or maybe the ass-hat who was installing them at the factory was the son of some SS officer who got his ass shot off in the Battle of the Bulge, and this was the son's method of payback.
But seriously, it seems the seals in many cases were simply installed improperly, causing leaks. I'm just glad the guys who built the rest of the cars were not as wall-eyed.
Tim _________________ Let's do the Time Warp again!
Richard O'Brien |
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calvinater Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2014 Posts: 3306 Location: 802
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Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 1:12 pm Post subject: Re: Death Foam??!! :( |
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Tim, Perhaps "california" ( no rain or salt ) is the reason for no death foam rot, our 74 super sure has some (N.J.- Vt.) as far as we cant tell .. Or maybe because its known to cause cancer and birth defects in the state of california, ? _________________ "Albatross"! |
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Frodge Samba Member
Joined: October 04, 2006 Posts: 1991 Location: Dump
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Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 1:24 pm Post subject: Re: Death Foam??!! :( |
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ROCKOROD71 wrote: |
I have been following this particular thread, and other death foam threads for some time. I think it would be helpful for those experiencing these issues to post what year bug we are dealing with along with a description of how extensive the rust is. I have a 1971 with the flow through vents, and I have owned it in New England since 1995. There is no death foam rust on it, nor has there ever been. Not sure if it even has foam in 71 or still using the pillows at that time, I've never opened it up to see. However, I have noticed a trend just in my reading that most of these death foam bugs seem to be 73, 74, 75, 76. Consequently I was having a discussion with a Samba member who is active on the Baywindow forum (he was welding up my 77 Westy) about some rust issues at his shop and the conversation turned to these middle 70s years and the fact that despite what model or even brand, a lot of cars in those years seemed to rust away and have all gone to the crusher in greater numbers. He said he talked to someone who worked in the steel industry at the time who said that the steel itself was different. Now, coming from ME this is all just a tall tale, merely speculation, but I did bring up to this person at the time that I noticed the death foam issue in the bugs all seem to be from those mid-70s model cars. I'm sure there is no way to really confirm it without undertaking some kind of statistical survey, etc. but might be something to consider when buying a bug, to avoid those mid-70s years or at least work that into a potential repair budget. |
There is some truth to this story. I had a 73 nova that rusted to bits. Gm used remanufactured Japanese steel that year. The proof was in the pudding. |
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TDCTDI Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013 Posts: 12815 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 6:35 pm Post subject: Re: Death Foam??!! :( |
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ALL of the '71 & newer beetles with the crescent vents behind the rear window will experience this problem because of water getting into/onto the sound deadening material in the inner cavity of the rear quarters. Some see the issue sooner than others due to how much exposure to water or even the salt content of the water. _________________ Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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Horance Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2015 Posts: 88 Location: Toledo
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Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 12:35 pm Post subject: Re: Death Foam??!! :( |
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You probably hit the nail on the head ROCKOROD71, mine is a 73.
it may be that the steal is not as good, added to the fact the foam sucks.
I think I have gotten lucky on mine as it is more baby Swiss cheese smaller holes then what I was afraid of.
I just wish my wiring was not all behind the tar board. I do not see a way to pull the harness. but I did find the limits of my rust below the vents, as well as some what of a mystery in the paint that I have yet to figure out before I strip the car.
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Volks Wagen Samba Member
Joined: February 13, 2013 Posts: 2926 Location: Germany
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Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 2:58 pm Post subject: Re: Death Foam??!! :( |
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Horance wrote: |
@$&! PO bondo-ed over the rust. (see below)
Has any one used the patch panels that are offered for the fender bead area by cip1?
(http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=TAB%2D400%2D521)
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Dude, VW used a filler to get the shape good. Mine was the same. That's why it's right on the bare metal under the paint, and looks like it was always there .... because it was always there. I used a similar patch panel. I had difficulties with it following the lines of the curve, so I did have to modify it. _________________ 1973 1303 with AB-motor - sporadic
reconstruction as time permits, 1986 ex-Bundeswehr Doka - on the road again.
I'm definitely, probably, the worlds greatest lover.
Aithníonn ciaróg ciaróg eile. |
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ara911 Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2016 Posts: 45
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Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:40 pm Post subject: Re: Death Foam??!! :( |
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I know what youre talking about.. very sadly ...$%^#%^$-germans
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Horance Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2015 Posts: 88 Location: Toledo
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Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 7:16 am Post subject: Death Foam??!! :( |
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Are we all having fun today? (#$% no)
I could not pull the wire harness out now I know why.
The foam make a damb good glue for things you may want to remove.
BTW Acetone does not touché this silly foam.
It is far from fun going at the foam from below, but I do not want to put any more holes then I need to into my car.
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