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Death Foam??!! :(
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air-h2o-air
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 8:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Death Foam??!! :( Reply with quote

Frode, yes I did when repairing mine
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pernest
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Death Foam??!! :( Reply with quote

Removing death foam is like removing the brain from a mummy thru the nostril. That's how i thought of it before beginning the job.

I did cut out a small panel on the inside just behind the rear window where the foam is located. I cut it with a dremmel and fashioned a plate to stick over the square hole when finished. Then, I got behind the motor and began pulling pieces of foam out with a coat hanger bent over at the business end. It takes awhile --- you just have to act like you're trying to get all of that brain out of the soon to be mummy. Thru the inside hole, I osphood any rusted metal that I saw and repainted it.

Did this 8 to 10 years ago and haven't seen a spec of rust since.
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Hatracks
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Death Foam??!! :( Reply with quote

I just did the same repairs on mine and ended up cutting 3-4 holes per side to get all of the foam scraped out including 1 under the fender line to get all of the junk that fell down.

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Horance
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 5:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Death Foam??!! :( Reply with quote

@$&! PO bondo-ed over the rust. (see below)

Has any one used the patch panels that are offered for the fender bead area by cip1?
(http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=TAB%2D400%2D521)
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Hatracks
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 5:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Death Foam??!! :( Reply with quote

Since you have to cut so high I would either find a donor car and cut out the full piece you need or just make it yourself. Most of the aftermarket sheet metal I have received has taken just as much work as making it yourself.

Also I would keep taking the paint off in the entire area, if he bondo'd over rust there may be more.
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EXJAY
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 8:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Death Foam??!! :( Reply with quote

Getting a good donor piece is the way to go if its that bad.
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air-h2o-air
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 8:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Death Foam??!! :( Reply with quote

not many donors available that arent already rusty
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Horance
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Death Foam??!! :( Reply with quote

air-h2o-air wrote:
not many donors available that aren't already rusty

That is the problem, I am in Toledo oh lots of salt, and few options as all the salvage yards in my area do not have ANY air cooled cars, and if they did they would be rusty as well.

I am going to get working to form a panel for the sections at the chrome trim area and above the fold in the body going towards the glass area.

Worst case I will cut it out, remove the foam and clear out any debris and wiring and using a rust proofing tube sprayer por 15 every thing inside. Then using strips of steal and 3m panel adhesive rebuild the Swiss cheese body area. That being said I still need steel nuts wielded into a steal body area to bolt the finder to.

As for sanding more you bet your boots I am, a shame in a small way whoever did the body work did it well save for the bondo filled rust. If it wasn't for bondo squeezed in the holes underneath i would say they did a good job.
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Hatracks
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Death Foam??!! :( Reply with quote

Horance wrote:


As for sanding more you bet your boots I am, a shame in a small way whoever did the body work did it well save for the bondo filled rust. If it wasn't for bondo squeezed in the holes underneath i would say they did a good job.


Mine was the same way, the paint was bubbled and the bondo had been there for years right over the rust but the body work was really good and I would of never known without the bubbles.

Making the panels/pieces was not that bad. I rough shaped the steel by bending it into a vice and hammering angle into it to get the crease where I wanted. Then tack welded areas and hammered it into shape and welding as I went.

I can take some more close up pictures tomorrow if you want of the panels. My welds are not pretty but they are functional Laughing

If you want full panels last time I talked to Averys Air Cooled he said he had some, you could always give him a call Monday.
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Horance
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:17 am    Post subject: Re: Death Foam??!! :( Reply with quote

Hatracks wrote:

Making the panels/pieces was not that bad. I rough shaped the steel by bending it into a vice and hammering angle into it to get the crease where I wanted. Then tack welded areas and hammered it into shape and welding as I went.

I can take some more close up pictures tomorrow if you want of the panels. My welds are not pretty but they are functional Laughing


yes making the patches can be "fun" but for the wield in nuts I am willing to cut and trim a preformed panel and pay to have it wielded right. I have a cheep wire welder but i suck at welding and this will show.
I will use a long shank wire wheel on a drill on the inside and use pro-patch on the pin holes, but i will not know how bad it is until i cut some holes in it.
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Horance
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:00 am    Post subject: Death Foam??!! :( Patch panel update Reply with quote

I received my box from CIP1 and her is a quick idea of the fit. It goes back to tuck under the deck lid, but I will be cutting short of that.

The bolts appear to be only wielded at the corners with a gap on each edge, this will be sealed with por-15 patch.

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ROCKOROD71
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:30 am    Post subject: Re: Death Foam??!! :( Reply with quote

I have been following this particular thread, and other death foam threads for some time. I think it would be helpful for those experiencing these issues to post what year bug we are dealing with along with a description of how extensive the rust is. I have a 1971 with the flow through vents, and I have owned it in New England since 1995. There is no death foam rust on it, nor has there ever been. Not sure if it even has foam in 71 or still using the pillows at that time, I've never opened it up to see. However, I have noticed a trend just in my reading that most of these death foam bugs seem to be 73, 74, 75, 76. Consequently I was having a discussion with a Samba member who is active on the Baywindow forum (he was welding up my 77 Westy) about some rust issues at his shop and the conversation turned to these middle 70s years and the fact that despite what model or even brand, a lot of cars in those years seemed to rust away and have all gone to the crusher in greater numbers. He said he talked to someone who worked in the steel industry at the time who said that the steel itself was different. Now, coming from ME this is all just a tall tale, merely speculation, but I did bring up to this person at the time that I noticed the death foam issue in the bugs all seem to be from those mid-70s model cars. I'm sure there is no way to really confirm it without undertaking some kind of statistical survey, etc. but might be something to consider when buying a bug, to avoid those mid-70s years or at least work that into a potential repair budget.
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Tim Donahoe
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Death Foam??!! :( Reply with quote

Rock, I have a 1974, and have no death foam issues. When I bought the car in 2012, it had been garaged for at least eight years, but the PO told me that when he first saw the bug, it was sitting outside--looking very sad. So who knows how long it had been out in the weather.

The conclusion I've drawn is that something had changed in the way VW installed the lower, interior seal, causing it to leak from exterior moisture entering the crescents. Perhaps the seal material changed, or maybe the ass-hat who was installing them at the factory was the son of some SS officer who got his ass shot off in the Battle of the Bulge, and this was the son's method of payback.

But seriously, it seems the seals in many cases were simply installed improperly, causing leaks. I'm just glad the guys who built the rest of the cars were not as wall-eyed.

Tim
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calvinater
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 1:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Death Foam??!! :( Reply with quote

Tim, Perhaps "california" ( no rain or salt ) is the reason for no death foam rot, our 74 super sure has some (N.J.- Vt.) as far as we cant tell .. Or maybe because its known to cause cancer and birth defects in the state of california, ? Rolling Eyes
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Frodge
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 1:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Death Foam??!! :( Reply with quote

ROCKOROD71 wrote:
I have been following this particular thread, and other death foam threads for some time. I think it would be helpful for those experiencing these issues to post what year bug we are dealing with along with a description of how extensive the rust is. I have a 1971 with the flow through vents, and I have owned it in New England since 1995. There is no death foam rust on it, nor has there ever been. Not sure if it even has foam in 71 or still using the pillows at that time, I've never opened it up to see. However, I have noticed a trend just in my reading that most of these death foam bugs seem to be 73, 74, 75, 76. Consequently I was having a discussion with a Samba member who is active on the Baywindow forum (he was welding up my 77 Westy) about some rust issues at his shop and the conversation turned to these middle 70s years and the fact that despite what model or even brand, a lot of cars in those years seemed to rust away and have all gone to the crusher in greater numbers. He said he talked to someone who worked in the steel industry at the time who said that the steel itself was different. Now, coming from ME this is all just a tall tale, merely speculation, but I did bring up to this person at the time that I noticed the death foam issue in the bugs all seem to be from those mid-70s model cars. I'm sure there is no way to really confirm it without undertaking some kind of statistical survey, etc. but might be something to consider when buying a bug, to avoid those mid-70s years or at least work that into a potential repair budget.

There is some truth to this story. I had a 73 nova that rusted to bits. Gm used remanufactured Japanese steel that year. The proof was in the pudding.
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TDCTDI
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 6:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Death Foam??!! :( Reply with quote

ALL of the '71 & newer beetles with the crescent vents behind the rear window will experience this problem because of water getting into/onto the sound deadening material in the inner cavity of the rear quarters. Some see the issue sooner than others due to how much exposure to water or even the salt content of the water.
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Horance
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 12:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Death Foam??!! :( Reply with quote

You probably hit the nail on the head ROCKOROD71, mine is a 73.
it may be that the steal is not as good, added to the fact the foam sucks.

I think I have gotten lucky on mine as it is more baby Swiss cheese smaller holes then what I was afraid of.
I just wish my wiring was not all behind the tar board. I do not see a way to pull the harness. but I did find the limits of my rust below the vents, as well as some what of a mystery in the paint that I have yet to figure out before I strip the car.



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Volks Wagen
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 2:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Death Foam??!! :( Reply with quote

Horance wrote:
@$&! PO bondo-ed over the rust. (see below)

Has any one used the patch panels that are offered for the fender bead area by cip1?
(http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=TAB%2D400%2D521)
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Dude, VW used a filler to get the shape good. Mine was the same. That's why it's right on the bare metal under the paint, and looks like it was always there .... because it was always there. I used a similar patch panel. I had difficulties with it following the lines of the curve, so I did have to modify it.
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ara911
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Death Foam??!! :( Reply with quote

I know what youre talking about.. very sadly ...$%^#%^$-germans

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Horance
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 7:16 am    Post subject: Death Foam??!! :( Reply with quote

Are we all having fun today? (#$% no)

I could not pull the wire harness out now I know why.
The foam make a damb good glue for things you may want to remove.
BTW Acetone does not touché this silly foam.
It is far from fun going at the foam from below, but I do not want to put any more holes then I need to into my car.



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