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kiwighia68
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2013
Posts: 2874
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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 Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:37 pm Post subject: Re: Tire wheel and suspension thread |
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| Shaqyb7 wrote: |
Hi
I was wondering if you guys can help me , I'm new to the classic vw scene and had my KG for around 10 months now , slowly been restoring it. Just after some advice on tyre size for my ghia.
I currently have 135/70/15 (4.5" rim) on the fronts and 165/85/15 (5.5" rim) on the rears...Was thinking maybe 145/65/15 or 155/65/15 for the fronts.
And the rears 165/65/15
What do you guys think? |
Smaller tyres (in height/circumference) affect the speedo reading (front tyres) and the engine revs. When I had smaller tyres on my Ghia, the speedo was out by 10% and the engine revs were 10% higher at 100kph. Whatever you do wth regard to the width of the tyres, I would suggest standard height.circumference.
Lowering shouldn't cause a problem at the rear with standard height tyres, but the fronts may rub on the fenders unless you go for much narrower tyres. You might have to spend a day at the tyre suppliers do it the trial and error way until you have the right combination.
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Festina lente - hasten slowly
1968 Ghia named Emiko
Resto completed Dec 2015 |
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Shaqyb7
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2016
Posts: 6
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 1:06 pm Post subject: Re: Tire wheel and suspension thread |
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| slalombuggy wrote: |
I can tell you from experience that 135s and 145s SUCK. IF you ever need to make a hard stop they will lock up instantly and skid. Go for a wider tires in the front, at least as wide as a 165.
brad |
I actually experienced that first hand, Where someone pulled out infront of me It was Rather scary, Hence why I need a wider width tyre.
Thanks.
ShaQ |
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Shaqyb7
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2016
Posts: 6
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: Tire wheel and suspension thread |
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| kiwighia68 wrote: |
Smaller tyres (in height/circumference) affect the speedo reading (front tyres) and the engine revs. When I had smaller tyres on my Ghia, the speedo was out by 10% and the engine revs were 10% higher at 100kph. Whatever you do wth regard to the width of the tyres, I would suggest standard height.circumference.
Lowering shouldn't cause a problem at the rear with standard height tyres, but the fronts may rub on the fenders unless you go for much narrower tyres. You might have to spend a day at the tyre suppliers do it the trial and error way until you have the right combination. |
Thanks for that. That did cross my mind.
Do you think the 155/65/15 up front and 165/65/15 on the rear will be okay?
I Won't know I suppose until I fit them and see.
Really starting to give me a headache all this tyre size stuff 😭
Thanks
ShaQ |
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kiwighia68
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2013
Posts: 2874
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 1:27 pm Post subject: Re: Tire wheel and suspension thread |
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| kiwighia68 wrote: |
| Smaller tyres (in height/circumference) affect the speedo reading (front tyres) and the engine revs.... |
| Shaqyb7 wrote: |
Thanks for that. That did cross my mind. Do you think the 155/65/15 up front and 165/65/15 on the rear will be okay? I Won't know I suppose until I fit them and see. Really starting to give me a headache all this tyre size stuff 😭
Thanks
ShaQ |
Better to have the headaches now than having to buy another set of tyres and having to repair your car's fenders and new paint - which is what I had to do. I only got my car back from the painter guy last week.
Take your time. Ask the tyre suppliers/fitment centre for advice and for trial fittings. That's what I should have done, and it would have saved me about $1000, not to mention the stress and sisappointment.
Best of luck.
_________________
Festina lente - hasten slowly
1968 Ghia named Emiko
Resto completed Dec 2015 |
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Shaqyb7
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2016
Posts: 6
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 1:42 pm Post subject: Re: Tire wheel and suspension thread |
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| kiwighia68 wrote: |
| Shaqyb7 wrote: |
| Smaller tyres (in height/circumference) affect the speedo reading (front tyres) and the engine revs.... |
Thanks for that. That did cross my mind. Do you think the 155/65/15 up front and 165/65/15 on the rear will be okay? I Won't know I suppose until I fit them and see. Really starting to give me a headache all this tyre size stuff 😭
Thanks
ShaQ |
Better to have the headaches now than having to buy another set of tyres and having to repair your car's fenders and new paint - which is what I had to do. I only got my car back from the painter guy last week.
Take your time. Ask the tyre suppliers/fitment centre for advice and for trial fittings. That's what I should have done, and it would have saved me about $1000, not to mention the stress and sisappointment.
Best of luck.[/quote]
You are absolutely right. I will do just that. Thanks.
Will post up pics in this thread once sorted. Should be this week hopfully.
ShaQ |
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slalombuggy
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Joined: July 17, 2010
Posts: 9145
Location: Canada
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sactojesse
Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2006
Posts: 2655
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 8:58 pm Post subject: Re: Tire wheel and suspension thread |
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| Shaqyb7 wrote: |
I currently have 135/70/15 (4.5" rim) on the fronts and 165/85/15 (5.5" rim) on the rears.
I prefer the classic look on the front end so I wanted to go with a tyre with a slightly bigger side wall. And the rear tyres are close to the arch and afraid it will rub once lowered.
The car is on dropped spindles and I will be lowering the rear a spline soon.
Was thinking maybe 145/65/15 or 155/65/15 for the fronts.
And the rears 165/65/15 |
165/65R15 is a bad choice for the rear. The diameter is only 23.4 inches, so it will result in shorter gearing (higher rpms at a given speed) compared to a stock tire (155/80R15 [24.8 inches] or 165/80R15 [25.4 inches]). For a 5.5 inch rim, I would consider 185/65R15 (24.5 inches) or 195/65R15 (25 inches). Otherwise, stick with 165/80R15 or 165R15 in the rear.
Is your front beam narrowed? Your options are limited with a stock beam and drop spindles due to the extra offset from the drop spindles. The tires you are considering are considerably smaller diameter than stock, which will make your speedometer read higher than actual speed.
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1966 Karmann-Ghia convertible |
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steveoutlaw
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2014
Posts: 211
Location: Woodbridge, VA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 7:53 am Post subject: Re: Tire wheel and suspension thread |
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| What is the best way to clean aluminum rims? I'd like to get them clean and keep them clean. Any advice is appreciated. |
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Gherby
Samba Member
Joined: April 07, 2015
Posts: 3
Location: Melbourne, Aus
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| Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 2:38 am Post subject: Re: Tire wheel and suspension thread |
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Long time reader, first time poster.
Reading much of this thread caused considerable confusion as to tyre sizes and what is stock, so I went back to basics. The owners handbook for my 71 ghia coupe suggests the standard tyre ("tire" if you prefer) is a 5.60 S 15. This imperial size would convert to a 143/82R15 in metric if it existed. As such the closest tyre to stock in a metric size is a 145/80R15.
Trying to stay close to the correct (stock) diameter provides a number of sizes and widths. Below is a chart to assit with tyre size comparisons for standard 15" rims. The green are within 3% of stock, the yellow are within 5% of stock.
Speedo errors are probable even with stock tyres as all manufacturers set speedos to read high (i.e. you are going slower than indicated) for liability purposes. Given the ages of our cars I wouldn't be at all suprised if many were out by as much as 5% or more.
I hope the following chart helps:
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sactojesse
Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2006
Posts: 2655
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: Tire wheel and suspension thread |
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| Gherby wrote: |
Long time reader, first time poster.
Reading much of this thread caused considerable confusion as to tyre sizes and what is stock, so I went back to basics. The owners handbook for my 71 ghia coupe suggests the standard tyre ("tire" if you prefer) is a 5.60 S 15. This imperial size would convert to a 143/82R15 in metric if it existed. As such the closest tyre to stock in a metric size is a 145/80R15. |
How did you get those dimensions for a 5.60-15? I was always under the impression that the diameter of a 5.60-15 was around 25.9 inches, i.e., taller than that of a 165/80R15, but that it was narrower, as indicated by the 5.60 inch section width.
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1966 Karmann-Ghia convertible |
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Gherby
Samba Member
Joined: April 07, 2015
Posts: 3
Location: Melbourne, Aus
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| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:12 am Post subject: Re: Tire wheel and suspension thread |
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| sactojesse wrote: |
| Gherby wrote: |
Long time reader, first time poster.
Reading much of this thread caused considerable confusion as to tyre sizes and what is stock, so I went back to basics. The owners handbook for my 71 ghia coupe suggests the standard tyre ("tire" if you prefer) is a 5.60 S 15. This imperial size would convert to a 143/82R15 in metric if it existed. As such the closest tyre to stock in a metric size is a 145/80R15. |
How did you get those dimensions for a 5.60-15? I was always under the impression that the diameter of a 5.60-15 was around 25.9 inches, i.e., taller than that of a 165/80R15, but that it was narrower, as indicated by the 5.60 inch section width. |
Traditional imperial tires had the section width specified in inches, i.e. 5.60 = 5.6", and all had a consistent aspect ratio of 82, or 82% of the section width. As such the sidewall height is 0.82 x 5.6" = 4.6" sidewall. 2 x sidewall + 15" rim = 24.2" diameter which equates to approx 76" rolling circumference. |
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sactojesse
Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2006
Posts: 2655
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:30 am Post subject: Re: Tire wheel and suspension thread |
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| Gherby wrote: |
| Traditional imperial tires had the section width specified in inches, i.e. 5.60 = 5.6", and all had a consistent aspect ratio of 82, or 82% of the section width. As such the sidewall height is 0.82 x 5.6" = 4.6" sidewall. 2 x sidewall + 15" rim = 24.2" diameter which equates to approx 76" rolling circumference. |
I thought 82 was the aspect ratio for P-metric radials, e.g., 135R15, 145R15, 155R15, 165R15, etc., not bias ply tires.
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1966 Karmann-Ghia convertible |
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mandraks
Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2004
Posts: 7047
Location: Lawrenceville, Ga
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| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:01 pm Post subject: Re: Tire wheel and suspension thread |
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| sactojesse wrote: |
| Gherby wrote: |
| Traditional imperial tires had the section width specified in inches, i.e. 5.60 = 5.6", and all had a consistent aspect ratio of 82, or 82% of the section width. As such the sidewall height is 0.82 x 5.6" = 4.6" sidewall. 2 x sidewall + 15" rim = 24.2" diameter which equates to approx 76" rolling circumference. |
I thought 82 was the aspect ratio for P-metric radials, e.g., 135R15, 145R15, 155R15, 165R15, etc., not bias ply tires. |
bias ply tires are more like 100% aspect ratio. a 165 is pretty much spot on for diameter. I usually compare on coker.com. They do a decent job for bias ply tires. Everything else i use tirerack, they show the diameter for radials
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regards
Uli
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'53 3-Fold Oval, L35 Metallic Blue, looking for a narrow hatch panel |
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sactojesse
Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2006
Posts: 2655
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 10:02 am Post subject: Re: Tire wheel and suspension thread |
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| mandraks wrote: |
| sactojesse wrote: |
| Gherby wrote: |
| Traditional imperial tires had the section width specified in inches, i.e. 5.60 = 5.6", and all had a consistent aspect ratio of 82, or 82% of the section width. As such the sidewall height is 0.82 x 5.6" = 4.6" sidewall. 2 x sidewall + 15" rim = 24.2" diameter which equates to approx 76" rolling circumference. |
I thought 82 was the aspect ratio for P-metric radials, e.g., 135R15, 145R15, 155R15, 165R15, etc., not bias ply tires. |
bias ply tires are more like 100% aspect ratio. a 165 is pretty much spot on for diameter. I usually compare on coker.com. They do a decent job for bias ply tires. Everything else i use tirerack, they show the diameter for radials |
That's what I thought. The old bias ply 5.60 x 15 tires always seemed tall and skinny to me.
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1966 Karmann-Ghia convertible |
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Gherby
Samba Member
Joined: April 07, 2015
Posts: 3
Location: Melbourne, Aus
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 2:29 pm Post subject: Re: Tire wheel and suspension thread |
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| mandraks wrote: |
| sactojesse wrote: |
| Gherby wrote: |
| Traditional imperial tires had the section width specified in inches, i.e. 5.60 = 5.6", and all had a consistent aspect ratio of 82, or 82% of the section width. As such the sidewall height is 0.82 x 5.6" = 4.6" sidewall. 2 x sidewall + 15" rim = 24.2" diameter which equates to approx 76" rolling circumference. |
I thought 82 was the aspect ratio for P-metric radials, e.g., 135R15, 145R15, 155R15, 165R15, etc., not bias ply tires. |
bias ply tires are more like 100% aspect ratio. a 165 is pretty much spot on for diameter. I usually compare on coker.com. They do a decent job for bias ply tires. Everything else i use tirerack, they show the diameter for radials |
Hi Mandraks and Sactojesse, thanks for your comments and the reference sites. Coker.com state that a 5.60 bias ply would have had a 90 aspect ratio. If so then stock in the day would have been equivalent to a 143/90R15. (very wierd size in modern tyres, not close to anything in particular). I have updated the size comparison chart I made and used slightly diferent colors. The sizes with a Blue background are within 3% of stock. This is about 9mm which is common tread depth i.e. roughly the amount of diference between a new and a bald tyre of the same make. Again I hope this helps anyone who, like me, is trying to make sense of what to fit. P.S. I'm currently getting some 195/60R15's fitted to my 5.5" chromies. (2" narrowed beam; 2.5" drop spindles) Any bigger and I rub inside the front apron.
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Ghiaologist
Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2010
Posts: 7
Location: Washington
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| Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 11:28 am Post subject: Re: Tire wheel and suspension thread |
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I'm sorry if this is in the wrong place. What is the stock wheel for a 63 Ghia? How are they measured? The wheels and tires I have on now don't fit the wheel well when turning, or the spare tire storage. I'm thinking that maybe they are bus wheels...
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1963 Ghia convertible since 1977
I love Ghias! The look of them, the taste, the schmell!
- Johan Van der Schmut |
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motorhead364
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Joined: November 04, 2008
Posts: 715
Location: Amarillo Texas
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| Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 12:45 pm Post subject: Re: Tire wheel and suspension thread |
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Stock wheel is 15x4 wide 5. Tires I have on mine, and show to have been stock are 165/80/15
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63 ghia coupe |
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63 GhiaLover
Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2015
Posts: 45
Location: Campinas/SP -- Brazil
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| Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 7:59 pm Post subject: Re: Tire wheel and suspension thread |
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| Shaqyb7 wrote: |
| kiwighia68 wrote: |
Smaller tyres (in height/circumference) affect the speedo reading (front tyres) and the engine revs. When I had smaller tyres on my Ghia, the speedo was out by 10% and the engine revs were 10% higher at 100kph. Whatever you do wth regard to the width of the tyres, I would suggest standard height.circumference.
Lowering shouldn't cause a problem at the rear with standard height tyres, but the fronts may rub on the fenders unless you go for much narrower tyres. You might have to spend a day at the tyre suppliers do it the trial and error way until you have the right combination. |
Thanks for that. That did cross my mind.
Do you think the 155/65/15 up front and 165/65/15 on the rear will be okay?
I Won't know I suppose until I fit them and see.
Really starting to give me a headache all this tyre size stuff 😭
Thanks
ShaQ |
Believe me when I say I went from heaven to hell and back when it comes to tires and wheels (and trashed fenders). When I got my ghia in 2004 it was stock in stance and setup: 15x4" wheels wrapped on 5.60 tires. I didn't like that look, so I lowered the car and went with 17x7.25" wheels wrapped on 205/40 fronts and 225/45 rears. No rear issues at all. Up front it was kind of rubbing nightmare though! Lost count of how many times I had to have my fenders repaired and resprayed. Ten years later (and yes this is one of the advantages and getting older and wiser  ) I realized that couldn't go on and bought a brand new set of wide fives (yes, I was stupid enough to throw away my other set back in the day...  ). This time I did the proper research and ended up with 155/[email protected]" fronts and 205/[email protected]" rears. Drivability improved insanely, as now I have a real car that makes turns lock to lock (BTW as any real car should do). The rear fender lips were rolled to get a bit more clearance for the portawalls. But let the pics speak for themselves:
That said I think it would be pretty safe to go with 155/60 up front and 185/60 (or even 195/60) on the rear if your car has short axles like mine  |
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nani85
Samba Member
Joined: May 29, 2015
Posts: 3
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 6:32 pm Post subject: Re: Tire wheel and suspension thread |
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63' Ghia Lover,
Thanks for the advice, even though I didn't personally ask I have followed this thread for the past 2 yrs and I finally got my car on the road.
Here it is:
My car is a 1968 Karmann Ghia
Front : Stock suspension with dropped spindles and 1/4" spacers, tires 155/60r15
Rear : Short swing axle with 195/70r15
Wheels are 914 alloys.
I love my car, feels smooth on the road. |
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63 GhiaLover
Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2015
Posts: 45
Location: Campinas/SP -- Brazil
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| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 11:31 am Post subject: Re: Tire wheel and suspension thread |
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| nani85 wrote: |
63' Ghia Lover,
Thanks for the advice, even though I didn't personally ask I have followed this thread for the past 2 yrs and I finally got my car on the road.
Here it is:
My car is a 1968 Karmann Ghia
Front : Stock suspension with dropped spindles and 1/4" spacers, tires 155/60r15
Rear : Short swing axle with 195/70r15
Wheels are 914 alloys.
I love my car, feels smooth on the road. |
One more Ghia that hits the road. Happy it all went well with you.
BTW, can you tell me what nice grey is that on your car? |
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