Author |
Message |
jonnybgood Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2006 Posts: 10 Location: prescott AZ
|
Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 2:00 pm Post subject: 2001 Eurovan repair ideas? (timing chain) |
|
|
I just got a 2001 Eurovan transporter . 130k miles .
Carfax with limited repairs. some body damage .
I have cam sensor codes, cyl 3 misfire .. and a data serial code .
I am doing a complete tune up . plugs, wires, all fluids and filters .
should I change cam sensors or a timing kit.
at the point of a timing kit . what else should we do ?
Also does anyone have suggestions on what repair manuals to use , .. ?
Please help .
I'm a beginner Eurovan Man .
meanwhile I'm a 1961 -type 1- 1600 stock . kind of guy .
But want the Eurovan safety and comfort . |
|
Back to top |
|
|
gakali Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2007 Posts: 448 Location: Cambridge, Ontario, Canada
|
Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 3:45 pm Post subject: Re: 2001 Eurovan .repair ideas? (timing chain) |
|
|
Welcome!
Depending on what codes you have you might just need a cam sensor. If the timing system is quiet and you don't have any timing or correlation type faults being set or driveability issues you may be able to dodge the timing chain bullet at this point.
Plugs and coils are a good place to start for the misfire fault. The 2001 has 6 coils and no wires if this is a 24 valve VR6. There was a recall for coils at one time. You can check it online here:
https://vinrcl.safercar.gov/vin/
The plastic cooling system parts on the engine are relatively cheap and a good idea to replace if original along with the thermostat and water pump. The original style water pump has a plastic impeller which can fail unexpectedly so consider the metal impeller type.
The Bentley manual in print or DVD is the way to go in my opinion. _________________ Why do it? Because you can.
1999 Eurovan
2003 A4 Avant 1.8T Quattro
1992 W201 190e 2.3 Mercedes
2006 W220 S600 V12 Twin Turbo 5.5 Mercedes |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jonnybgood Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2006 Posts: 10 Location: prescott AZ
|
Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:20 pm Post subject: Re: 2001 Eurovan .repair ideas? (timing chain) |
|
|
Ok , ..
New cabin and air filters,
Oil changed , spark plugs changed .
both sides upper and lower Ball joints replaced.
(Cylinder 3 misfire code is fixed)
I purchased 1 Cam sensor , used the 1 to see if it fixed 1 code . no change though . also one sensor seemed to be new .
Now noticing a rattle noise coming from rear of engine, now understanding this is near the timing chain .
One concern.
Since I have never driven these before I didn't notice until now . When in driving gear (on the start) , when pushing the throttle the van hesitates to understand "go" for about 2-10 secs . .. . ( computer ? communication issue? ) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jonnybgood Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2006 Posts: 10 Location: prescott AZ
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
jjvincent Samba Member
Joined: January 11, 2016 Posts: 1266 Location: Bethlehem, PA
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
jonnybgood Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2006 Posts: 10 Location: prescott AZ
|
Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 2:12 pm Post subject: Re: 2001 Eurovan .repair ideas? (timing chain) |
|
|
Thank you for the Bently link! [/img] |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jjvincent Samba Member
Joined: January 11, 2016 Posts: 1266 Location: Bethlehem, PA
|
Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:55 am Post subject: Re: 2001 Eurovan .repair ideas? (timing chain) |
|
|
Here's what I'd do first. Since you are going to have to remove the valve cover no matter what, do some preliminary exploratory surgery before you go all out and remove the transmission.
Take off the valve cover and take a look by the cam chains before you go go through a major operation of changing out the chains (you need to remove the transmission to do it). Look and see if there's plastic bits all over the place (from a broken guide rail) then turn the engine over clockwise up to TDC and see where the cams line up. There are slots on the back of the cams and they should be in line with the valve cover surface of the head. The tool is just a flat machined plate but you can use something like a paint mixing stick to just see how close you are. If the rail is broke or the intermediate sprocket is wore out, you'll have to continue to rotate the engine more just to get the came to line up. This is because the cams fall behind the crankshaft (it either skips a tooth or the chain has too much slack in it).
If they are right on you might have another problem. This can be the actual units that operate the cams (cam phasers). That unit should be removed no matter what because there's a screen in it that break loose and jam into phaser pistons that direct oil pressure to one side or the other of the cam adjuster.
Also, the two pistons in the cam phaser plate can be mucked up where the pistons will not operate any more. That can be taken apart and cleaned (should be cleaned no matter what).
One temporary fix is to do an electro shock therapy to the phaser actuators. This is to unhook them and then take a 9V battery and touch the leads to the actuator. The actuator is just an electro magnet that operates a piston. Since it only operated up to 5V, a 9V batter can force the piston loose. This can be done without removing anything. One word of warning, mark the connectors for the phasers and cam sensors as you can easily mix them up. So just mark them 1 and 2. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jonnybgood Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2006 Posts: 10 Location: prescott AZ
|
Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 4:00 pm Post subject: Re: 2001 Eurovan .repair ideas? (timing chain) |
|
|
thank you I will let you know . after the next step . _________________ 1961 type 1 , daily driver
(new) 2001 Eurovan GLS
1976 Type 1 (Goldie) project |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Xtremjeepn Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2012 Posts: 1539 Location: Colorado
|
Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 2:55 am Post subject: Re: 2001 Eurovan .repair ideas? (timing chain) |
|
|
gakali wrote: |
The original style water pump has a plastic impeller which can fail unexpectedly so consider the metal impeller type.
|
Plastic impellers are used to save your engine block when the water pump bearing fails. The impeller is softer than the engine block and sacrifices itself to protect the block. Failure is insanely easy to sport as you engine temps rise and eventually warning lights let you know it's over heating.
Metal water pumps trash engine blocks when the water pump bearing fails. In minor cases they open up the water pump cavity reducing the ability of a new pump to flow coolant. When means it can't keep the engine as cool as its is supposed to.
In the more extreme cases the block is simply trashed and much be replaced. _________________ http://www.cavevan.com |
|
Back to top |
|
|
gakali Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2007 Posts: 448 Location: Cambridge, Ontario, Canada
|
Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:57 pm Post subject: Re: 2001 Eurovan .repair ideas? (timing chain) |
|
|
Quote: |
Plastic impellers are used to save your engine block when the water pump bearing fails. The impeller is softer than the engine block and sacrifices itself to protect the block. Failure is insanely easy to sport as you engine temps rise and eventually warning lights let you know it's over heating.
Metal water pumps trash engine blocks when the water pump bearing fails. In minor cases they open up the water pump cavity reducing the ability of a new pump to flow coolant. When means it can't keep the engine as cool as its is supposed to.
In the more extreme cases the block is simply trashed and much be replaced. |
Very good points which make complete sense. One could argue that the steel impeller type rarely fail instantly with bearing noise being heard long before the impeller touch down point. The plastic type can fail instantly due to impeller shatter leaving you stranded and overheated (possibly with a cooked engine if not vigilant) with little warning. They both have pros and cons perhaps. Either one has got to be better than a 200,000 km OE unit on a road trip. _________________ Why do it? Because you can.
1999 Eurovan
2003 A4 Avant 1.8T Quattro
1992 W201 190e 2.3 Mercedes
2006 W220 S600 V12 Twin Turbo 5.5 Mercedes |
|
Back to top |
|
|
dixoncj Samba Member
Joined: June 17, 2004 Posts: 1083 Location: Charleston, SC
|
Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:10 pm Post subject: Re: 2001 Eurovan .repair ideas? (timing chain) |
|
|
I spoke with Lucas at Gowesty about the water pump plastic vs metal equation. He said the metal ones won't likely fail anytime soon and the plastic ones can cause weird issues if, say, one blade breaks off. Van overheats in weird ways that are tough to trace and diagnose for most shops. Then it fails completely and your engine is fried just the same. No free lunch with either in other words. I went metal. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jjvincent Samba Member
Joined: January 11, 2016 Posts: 1266 Location: Bethlehem, PA
|
Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:15 pm Post subject: Re: 2001 Eurovan .repair ideas? (timing chain) |
|
|
After 25 years of dealing with plastic impellers, I will admit that a bearing failure can chew up a block but for every 1 of them there are 500 overheated, blown headgasket, warped head and threads pulled out of the block engines. There's a reason why the overwhelming majority of people request a metal impeller.
There are two types of failures:
1. Blades break off and become lodged somewhere in the engine
2. The whole impeller comes off and it's just like throwing off the belt that drives the water pump (no more pumping of water). Thus, a hot engine overheats instantly. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jonnybgood Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2006 Posts: 10 Location: prescott AZ
|
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:38 pm Post subject: Re: 2001 Eurovan repair ideas? (timing chain) |
|
|
jonnybgood wrote: |
I just got a 2001 Eurovan transporter . 130k miles .
Carfax with limited repairs. some body damage .
I have cam sensor codes, cyl 3 misfire .. and a data serial code .
I am doing a complete tune up . plugs, wires, all fluids and filters .
should I change cam sensors or a timing kit.
at the point of a timing kit . what else should we do ?
Also does anyone have suggestions on what repair manuals to use , .. ?
Please help .
I'm a beginner Eurovan Man .
meanwhile I'm a 1961 -type 1- 1600 stock . kind of guy .
But want the Eurovan safety and comfort . |
OK , so this last step so far both cam sensors replaced .both cam position sensors code went away ..
Then ran around awhile no codes.
Upon restarting the engine the cam code turns on for right bank. ..
Delete code .. .. still no codes . ... code is being thrown upon start only.
Another note .. also hearing "noise " from the timing cover area ,
(give an opinion drive as is , replace timing chain kit, sell and try again ? )
Another question since this is my first EV , the van seems to have slow get up and go coming out of first , I'm questioning this cam issue>?
maybe its the norm, I need to drive another EV. _________________ 1961 type 1 , daily driver
(new) 2001 Eurovan GLS
1976 Type 1 (Goldie) project |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Zeddy Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2016 Posts: 27
|
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 10:03 pm Post subject: Re: 2001 Eurovan repair ideas? (timing chain) |
|
|
at the point of a timing kit . what else should we do ?
If pulling engine, consider at least looking/cleaning/testing the fuel injectors, +/- replace as needed. Bitch to have to do it again later |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jonnybgood Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2006 Posts: 10 Location: prescott AZ
|
Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 9:21 am Post subject: Re: 2001 Eurovan .repair ideas? (timing chain) |
|
|
gakali wrote: |
Welcome!
Depending on what codes you have you might just need a cam sensor. If the timing system is quiet and you don't have any timing or correlation type faults being set or driveability issues you may be able to dodge the timing chain bullet at this point.
Plugs and coils are a good place to start for the misfire fault. The 2001 has 6 coils and no wires if this is a 24 valve VR6. There was a recall for coils at one time. You can check it online here:
https://vinrcl.safercar.gov/vin/
The plastic cooling system parts on the engine are relatively cheap and a good idea to replace if original along with the thermostat and water pump. The original style water pump has a plastic impeller which can fail unexpectedly so consider the metal impeller type.
The Bentley manual in print or DVD is the way to go in my opinion. |
?
Note : there is some sound coming from timing chain cover . but I'm unsure how much or what kind of sounds are normal . I really need more EV people around in my area .. going to Jerome Jamboree (our local awesome campout) this next weekend going to check out other EV's to test drive or something to know more about mine. opinion? _________________ 1961 type 1 , daily driver
(new) 2001 Eurovan GLS
1976 Type 1 (Goldie) project |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jjvincent Samba Member
Joined: January 11, 2016 Posts: 1266 Location: Bethlehem, PA
|
Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 11:22 am Post subject: Re: 2001 Eurovan repair ideas? (timing chain) |
|
|
There are two potential solutions:
1. Cam phasers are not working properly (i.e. screen broke out jammed in the system or the cam phaser pistons are stuck or slow moving.
2. Timing chain system (broken guide rails or worn out intermediate sprocket)
It's up to you as what you want to do but there's no cheap fix. Sorry. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Zeddy Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2016 Posts: 27
|
Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 1:58 am Post subject: Re: 2001 Eurovan .repair ideas? (timing chain) |
|
|
Note : there is some sound coming from timing chain cover . but I'm unsure how much or what kind of sounds are normal
Opinion is timing chain/sprocket/guides. By mileage and an uncertain past history, if planning to keep the car long term, it likely is close to replace timing if not already there. I agree cam phasers or other things are a possibility. One option is you could youtube the sound of the engine and see if someone recognizes the disel-engine sounding rattle of loose/worn/chipped chains/sprockets/guides |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jjvincent Samba Member
Joined: January 11, 2016 Posts: 1266 Location: Bethlehem, PA
|
Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 5:22 am Post subject: Re: 2001 Eurovan repair ideas? (timing chain) |
|
|
Having been in the car repair business for many years, I find that when you have an expensive problem to fix (either labor intensive or parts) people will go out of their way to hope that there is a cheap solution.
It's like the 2003 Jetta GLI I bought for $500. The owner spent lots of time changing out sensors and cleaning the phasers. Then the engine skipped a bunch of teeth at once and bent the valves. He had changed the spark plugs, coils, cam sensors, crank sensor, all temp sensors and both O2 sensors. None of that could fix the inevitable. Needless to say, I pulled the motor, rebuilt the head, put on a timing kit and a few other things. With all of the stuff he changed out, that thing ended up running like a champ. Then I sold the car.
Talk to any VW repair shop and they know all too well what these older 24V VR6's are doing.
It's just like the friend of mine who spent 3 months replacing cooling system parts and purging the coolant system 500 times on his e46 325iX. I told him initially that the head gasket was blown and probably the head bolt threads will pull themselves out of the block. Guess what, 3 months later, I put in a used motor. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|