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Mikedrevguy
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Joined: October 15, 2008
Posts: 2240
Location: Medford, OR
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 Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 8:44 pm Post subject: 914 2300 big motor build. |
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I'm beginning to compile the parts to build a big motor for RevWife's 914.
Looking at the AA type 4 crank - what avantage or pitfalls will there be staying with 2.0 rods vs going with type 1? How will the rod choices affect the deck?
What clearancing of a stock 914 2.0 case can I anticipate?
Any draw backs to going with an 82mm over a 78mm?
AA biral 96mm pistons/cylinders
Cam - 163/86b
Hpmx 44
What should be done to enhance cooling? Anything necessary?
This is her commuter car, fun weekend car, have fun on the 1/4 mile track.
Thoughts? Comments? Revisions..
Edit: have stock 914 2.0 heads. What size valves would be best, were I to open them up?
_________________
74 1303 (RevBug): plan for German Look
76 914 with 2260
79 VW Iltis
69 Bwajaja
"The wise speak because they have something to say; while the foolish speak because they have to say something." Plato
Illigitimi non-Carborundum!!
Last edited by Mikedrevguy on Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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theKbStockpiler
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Joined: July 07, 2012
Posts: 2316
Location: Rust Belt
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:06 pm Post subject: Re: 914 2300 big motor build. |
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| Quote: |
| Looking at the AA type 4 crank - what avantage or pitfalls will there be staying with 2.0 rods vs going with type 1 |
Type I rods come in different lengths off the self. Stock type IV rods are heavy. With larger strokes ,longer rods are usually required.
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dsrtfox
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mark tucker
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Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:57 pm Post subject: Re: 914 2300 big motor build. |
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| with the type one rods you will have to have 22 mm pins in the pistons. type four is 24mm. no real big deal there are many pistons with the 22mm pins. even the new ls chevy v8 has them as does the ford 5.4&other modular engine & coyote and many others. as for deck thats up to whatever parts you get. |
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Mikedrevguy
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Joined: October 15, 2008
Posts: 2240
Location: Medford, OR
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:41 am Post subject: Re: 914 2300 big motor build. |
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Thanks for input. Appreciated much.
_________________
74 1303 (RevBug): plan for German Look
76 914 with 2260
79 VW Iltis
69 Bwajaja
"The wise speak because they have something to say; while the foolish speak because they have to say something." Plato
Illigitimi non-Carborundum!! |
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Mikedrevguy
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Joined: October 15, 2008
Posts: 2240
Location: Medford, OR
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 8:30 am Post subject: Re: 914 2300 big motor build. |
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One concern I have is the overall width of the motor.
Right now, access to the valve covers is virtually impossible. Maybe impractical is a better word.
More stroke -tighter deck = greater/lesser overall width.
Thanks for helping me think this through (or overthink this through?)
_________________
74 1303 (RevBug): plan for German Look
76 914 with 2260
79 VW Iltis
69 Bwajaja
"The wise speak because they have something to say; while the foolish speak because they have to say something." Plato
Illigitimi non-Carborundum!! |
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nextgen
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Alstrup
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Joined: July 12, 2007
Posts: 7221
Location: Videbaek Denmark
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:32 am Post subject: Re: 914 2300 big motor build. |
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Use chevy rod journals. Those bearings are better. Remember to order the cam on 1,04" base circle.
I would consider the Birals twice if I was you. Just saying. I would take a set of Keith Black pistons with the lowest pin height.
Thatīs an easy 150 hp engine |
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Mikedrevguy
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Joined: October 15, 2008
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Location: Medford, OR
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 12:26 pm Post subject: Re: 914 2300 big motor build. |
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Thanks all for the responses and questions and other inspired conversations
- am making/keeping notes for sure.
nextgen - valve covers are tucked back in behind the shock and frame. getting the bail to release was no where near as easy to access as the type 1s I've worked with.
I'll post a picture with what I'm looking at - I'm sure I'm making it more difficult than it really is, but - -
thanks much
m
_________________
74 1303 (RevBug): plan for German Look
76 914 with 2260
79 VW Iltis
69 Bwajaja
"The wise speak because they have something to say; while the foolish speak because they have to say something." Plato
Illigitimi non-Carborundum!! |
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Mikedrevguy
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Joined: October 15, 2008
Posts: 2240
Location: Medford, OR
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:05 am Post subject: Re: 914 2300 big motor build. |
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Also- when ordering cam on 1,04" base circle, is that the normal can clearances offered, or something else?
DRD has crank rods KB p/c kit- thoughts on that?
_________________
74 1303 (RevBug): plan for German Look
76 914 with 2260
79 VW Iltis
69 Bwajaja
"The wise speak because they have something to say; while the foolish speak because they have to say something." Plato
Illigitimi non-Carborundum!! |
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porkchop-rob
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Joined: April 28, 2015
Posts: 440
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:52 am Post subject: Re: 914 2300 big motor build. |
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| Mikedrevguy wrote: |
| DRD has crank rods KB p/c kit- thoughts on that? |
Couple of us here just south of Houston have bought a lot from Darren @ DRD. Good stuff and good service. Just give him a call or email and he will make sure you get what you need.
That said.... CB Performance and Aircooled.net have also been AMAZING to deal with.
In the end, it simply came down to the fact that the guy who was going to help me build preferred DRD. He actually never did help me, but I have been HAPPY with my purchase.
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1965 Beetle
1968 Beetle Baja (Son's First Car)
1976 Bus with Subaru (Wife's Riviera Camper) |
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Mikedrevguy
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Location: Medford, OR
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 10:07 am Post subject: Re: 914 2300 big motor build. |
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I've done business with Daren - 50/50 satisfaction rate - L-5 heads are great - the cam/lifters?? no to much. but, is what it is.
I'd just read comments elsewhere that T4 was not directly in the DRD wheelhouse - but will compare price of the kit to what air-cooled has -
thanks,
m
_________________
74 1303 (RevBug): plan for German Look
76 914 with 2260
79 VW Iltis
69 Bwajaja
"The wise speak because they have something to say; while the foolish speak because they have to say something." Plato
Illigitimi non-Carborundum!! |
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theKbStockpiler
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Joined: July 07, 2012
Posts: 2316
Location: Rust Belt
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:30 pm Post subject: Re: 914 2300 big motor build. |
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DRD includes common machine work that some others charge extra for. 
_________________
My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask. |
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jasonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
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Joined: May 20, 2014
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:32 pm Post subject: Re: 914 2300 big motor build. |
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| Depending on the lift of your cam, not sure but I think you will be ok with the 78mm crank. I have a 78.4mm crank in my motor but i hand filed the inside case haves....very little but that was for the cam clearance issue. Very important you must go valve size like 41 intake by 38 exhaust stainless steel. You can use 1800 heads on a 2.0 litter 914-type 4 and get away from changing the intakes and ONLY change the exhaust to larger 38mm, that right there will make your motor run cool big time! And try to use the sold lifters for more positive power...... Jason from California 714 580-5639. |
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Mikedrevguy
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Joined: October 15, 2008
Posts: 2240
Location: Medford, OR
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 7:34 am Post subject: Re: 914 2300 big motor build. |
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So. . . .
Having both 2.0 and 1.8 heads at my disposal, which would be better..?
Seats are going be replaced, so can get them opened up to whatever at that point.
_________________
74 1303 (RevBug): plan for German Look
76 914 with 2260
79 VW Iltis
69 Bwajaja
"The wise speak because they have something to say; while the foolish speak because they have to say something." Plato
Illigitimi non-Carborundum!! |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 8:14 am Post subject: Re: 914 2300 big motor build. |
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| Mikedrevguy wrote: |
So. . . .
Having both 2.0 and 1.8 heads at my disposal, which would be better..?
Seats are going be replaced, so can get them opened up to whatever at that point. |
What kind of 2.0 heads.....914 or bus? If they are bus it makes no real difference. If its 914,2.0 heads....use them as its a big difference......but they are known to be prone to cracking with age and heat cycling.....and to truly get rid of all the cracks and check them can cost as much as new heads.
Also if they are 914 heads you will need 914 sheet metal. The 2.0 914 beads have a different plug angle. Ray |
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Mikedrevguy
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Posts: 2240
Location: Medford, OR
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 10:33 am Post subject: Re: 914 2300 big motor build. |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
| Mikedrevguy wrote: |
So. . . .
Having both 2.0 and 1.8 heads at my disposal, which would be better..?
Seats are going be replaced, so can get them opened up to whatever at that point. |
What kind of 2.0 heads.....914 or bus? If they are bus it makes no real difference. If its 914,2.0 heads....use them as its a big difference......but they are known to be prone to cracking with age and heat cycling.....and to truly get rid of all the cracks and check them can cost as much as new heads.
Also if they are 914 heads you will need 914 sheet metal. The 2.0 914 beads have a different plug angle. Ray |
Sorry not to clarify, Ray. They are both 914 (does the 1.8 matter, though it came from a 914) 2.0 are three bolt. Other than it dropping e seat already, which will necessitate some repair. . . . . What should I bump those valve sizes to, while doing that head work?
And I've got both 2.0 and 1.8 engine tin. Plus the set of 2.0 tin currently on her car.
_________________
74 1303 (RevBug): plan for German Look
76 914 with 2260
79 VW Iltis
69 Bwajaja
"The wise speak because they have something to say; while the foolish speak because they have to say something." Plato
Illigitimi non-Carborundum!! |
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Alstrup
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Joined: July 12, 2007
Posts: 7221
Location: Videbaek Denmark
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 10:50 am Post subject: Re: 914 2300 big motor build. |
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Use the three bolt. They are good for 5 hp and 5% better torque than the 1,8 heads. The stock 42/36 valve size is good. Do not change that, especially not if you use the std heaterboxes. Quality SS valves and a good valve/seat job and you have approx 175 Cfm @ ,550 and 25" They will handle 150 hp easy.
I would rather pay a little extra and get a DPR crank.
T |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 11:30 am Post subject: Re: 914 2300 big motor build. |
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| Mikedrevguy wrote: |
| raygreenwood wrote: |
| Mikedrevguy wrote: |
So. . . .
Having both 2.0 and 1.8 heads at my disposal, which would be better..?
Seats are going be replaced, so can get them opened up to whatever at that point. |
What kind of 2.0 heads.....914 or bus? If they are bus it makes no real difference. If its 914,2.0 heads....use them as its a big difference......but they are known to be prone to cracking with age and heat cycling.....and to truly get rid of all the cracks and check them can cost as much as new heads.
Also if they are 914 heads you will need 914 sheet metal. The 2.0 914 beads have a different plug angle. Ray |
Sorry not to clarify, Ray. They are both 914 (does the 1.8 matter, though it came from a 914) 2.0 are three bolt. Other than it dropping e seat already, which will necessitate some repair. . . . . What should I bump those valve sizes to, while doing that head work?
And I've got both 2.0 and 1.8 engine tin. Plus the set of 2.0 tin currently on her car. |
Alstrup is spot on.
If the 2.0 heads have dropped a seat.....be ready....they are going to COST YOU...and its not assured the lifespan will be great even after full repair. They are prone to crack.
For reference...my point about the 1.8's....is that they are not Porsche castings...never were.
They came in the 412 first. Same casting...and same exact casting in the 1.8 bus.
The gist being that since the combustion chamber shape and volume of the 1.8 is virtually the same as the 2.0L......if the head choices were between a 2.0L bus and a 1.8L head....use whichever is in the best condition because there is very little significant difference between them.
However....the 2.0 914 head is a much better choice.
Get the heads to someone who knows type 4 heads. have them do a detailed inspection. If they find the normal cracks...ask for a serious estimate. You may find.....that its simpler and almost the same cost to call HAM inc....and get a new set of castings. They do 914 2.0 duplicates from what I have heard...meaning new AMC castings, new seats, CNC chamber shaping and proper 914 2.0L plug angle and three bolt intake pattern.
Ray |
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nextgen
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