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bvanaken
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2015
Posts: 12
Location: Bainbridge Island, WA
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 Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:52 pm Post subject: Ethanol vs. non-ethanol fuel |
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I have a 1967 ghia and it runs really well. The engine was rebuilt about 2 years ago. I only ethanol-free gas and it runs really well. The other day I ran out of gas and had to use gas with ethanol in it, I only put in about 2 gallons. The ghia ran really poorly and I almost didn't make it home. At home I had a 5-gallon can of ethanol-free gas. I added it to the remaining gas and it ran well. Coming home from work the car stated chugging again. I added another 5 gallons of ethanol free gas and it ran well.
Does anyone know if the ethanol-free gas is heavier and had sunk to the bottom of the tank then when it is all gone I am back into the gas with ethanol.
Any other thoughts would be much appreciated. |
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NOVA Airhead
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2005
Posts: 5221
Location: Richmond, VA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:52 pm Post subject: Re: Ethanol vs. non-ethanol fuel |
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I believe the ethanol is heavier.
How much ethanol - E85?
It could be the octane as ethanol has less octane.
I would not run anything more than E10 in a vintage VW.
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Zack1978
Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2006
Posts: 544
Location: NJ
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 7:43 pm Post subject: Re: Ethanol vs. non-ethanol fuel |
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Here in NJ we don't have the option of ethanol free gas, all of our gas has ethanol. My 72 coupe runs perfectly fine on gas with ethanol. Your situation sounds strange. I don't think I would be so quick to blame the ethanol. Perhaps you have other fuel system issues such as a clogged fuel filter.
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Mellow Yellow 74
Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2014
Posts: 1615
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 1:02 am Post subject: Re: Ethanol vs. non-ethanol fuel |
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| NOVA Airhead wrote: |
| It could be the octane as ethanol has less octane |
Actually ethanol has a higher octane so blending ethanol increases octane rating.
| Zack1978 wrote: |
| I don't think I would be so quick to blame the ethanol. Perhaps you have other fuel system issues such as a clogged fuel filter. |
I agree, if you ran out of fuel any sediment in your tank may have blocked the filters so it is worth checking.
But this doesn't explain why it runs ok when you top up the tank so you may be right because I think different density fuels can sit at different levels in the tank. I had a stale fuel issue which caused poor running but it was intermittent and went away when I topped up the tank but came back when the level dropped.
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1974 Deluxe Microbus
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NOVA Airhead
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2005
Posts: 5221
Location: Richmond, VA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 4:59 pm Post subject: Re: Ethanol vs. non-ethanol fuel |
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| Mellow Yellow 74 wrote: |
| NOVA Airhead wrote: |
| It could be the octane as ethanol has less octane |
Actually ethanol has a higher octane so blending ethanol increases octane rating.
| Zack1978 wrote: |
| I don't think I would be so quick to blame the ethanol. Perhaps you have other fuel system issues such as a clogged fuel filter. |
I agree, if you ran out of fuel any sediment in your tank may have blocked the filters so it is worth checking.
But this doesn't explain why it runs ok when you top up the tank so you may be right because I think different density fuels can sit at different levels in the tank. I had a stale fuel issue which caused poor running but it was intermittent and went away when I topped up the tank but came back when the level dropped. |
Should have been clearer. Ethanol blended gasoline is not higher in octane. From what I have seen the octane is lower - i.e., 87 versus 89 for regular. Ethanol is heavier and will settle to the bottom of the tank over time - but that is usually 6 weeks or so.
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Starbucket
Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2007
Posts: 4026
Location: WA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: Ethanol vs. non-ethanol fuel |
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| You might have had water in the gas you bought and when the level gets low it starts entering the motor. Try siphoning some out of the bottom of the tank and check it (gas floats on water). If you find water in the tank you need to remove the top of the carb and dump the gas out as water will probably be in there too. |
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bvanaken
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2015
Posts: 12
Location: Bainbridge Island, WA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:54 pm Post subject: Re: Ethanol vs. non-ethanol fuel |
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I think you all are on to something here. I am having problems again and I have a full tank of ethanol free gas. I think I have some sediment that has worked its way through the system. It is in the shop now. 
Thanks for all your input. |
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thruhiker74
Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2014
Posts: 118
Location: Tucson
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:22 pm Post subject: Re: Ethanol vs. non-ethanol fuel |
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| bvanaken wrote: |
I think you all are on to something here. I am having problems again and I have a full tank of ethanol free gas. I think I have some sediment that has worked its way through the system. It is in the shop now.
Thanks for all your input. |
Good place to start is to pull the needle valve. Blow some air through it, or just replace it (they're inexpensive and always worthwhile having a spare). |
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KGCoupe
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2005
Posts: 3580
Location: Putting the "ill" and "annoy" in Illinois
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:22 am Post subject: Re: Ethanol vs. non-ethanol fuel |
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Perhaps the in-tank filter screen had enough sediment settle on it to block the flow of fuel into the gas line, and when you added additional fuel the swirling action created in the tank washed the debris away.
Over time, that sediment would eventually settle back down to the bottom of the tank and once again block the filter screen.
Also, in theory the ethanol in a blended gasoline will actually absorb a great deal of any water that may be present in the fuel system.
Conversely, though, if the gas tank is vented directly to the atmosphere then the ethanol blended gasoline could actually draw additional moisture into the tank.
... at least that's what the Internets tell me, and it has to be true if it's posted on teh Internets, right?  |
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CiderGuy
Samba Member
Joined: December 23, 2013
Posts: 1351
Location: Bucks County, Pa
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:04 am Post subject: Re: Ethanol vs. non-ethanol fuel |
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| Zack1978 wrote: |
| Here in NJ we don't have the option of ethanol free gas, all of our gas has ethanol. My 72 coupe runs perfectly fine on gas with ethanol. Your situation sounds strange. I don't think I would be so quick to blame the ethanol. Perhaps you have other fuel system issues such as a clogged fuel filter. |
There is a large gas station/depot in Vineland, NJ which does or did sell non ethanol gas for off road use. I don't recall the name of the station.
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Cars Currently Owned:
1970 Karmann Ghia Coupe
1973 Karmann Ghia Coupe - Project car for sale
1970 Karmann Ghia Convertible (Body off restoration)
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bvanaken
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2015
Posts: 12
Location: Bainbridge Island, WA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 9:30 am Post subject: Re: Ethanol vs. non-ethanol fuel |
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You guys were right, Sediment/rust from the tank had run through the line and almost totally blocked my fuel pump. I took the top off and one side of it was totally full of rust flakes. I cleaned it all out and put it back together and it ran well. The only problem is that when I put it back together the line/tube that comes out of the pump was loose. I couldn't figure out how to tighten it so that it didn't leak. I have attached a picture of it below. If you have any ideas I would be much appreciated.
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Starbucket
Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2007
Posts: 4026
Location: WA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 9:39 am Post subject: Re: Ethanol vs. non-ethanol fuel |
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| I think it is just a press fit but some Loctite would help keep it in. Use some vice grips just snug above the "flange" and tap on the pliers till tight. |
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sputnick60
Samba Moderator
Joined: July 22, 2007
Posts: 3916
Location: In Molinya Orbit
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c21darrel
Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2009
Posts: 8211
Location: San Dimas
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jwold
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2008
Posts: 2088
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 12:07 pm Post subject: Re: Ethanol vs. non-ethanol fuel |
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| Bvaneken...quick go buy a lottery ticket! If this just fell out and you discovered it before certain calamity, then you are very lucky indeed! |
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sputnick60
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Joined: July 22, 2007
Posts: 3916
Location: In Molinya Orbit
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bvanaken
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2015
Posts: 12
Location: Bainbridge Island, WA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 9:28 am Post subject: Re: Ethanol vs. non-ethanol fuel |
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| Thanks for all the advice. I ended up replacing the fuel pump. But I did learn one thing, I now know why the previous owner had a fire extinguisher behind the drivers side seat. |
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Starbucket
Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2007
Posts: 4026
Location: WA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 3:33 pm Post subject: Re: Ethanol vs. non-ethanol fuel |
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| that's the 1st thing you buy when you get an old VW |
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63 vwnotch
Samba Member
Joined: December 31, 2002
Posts: 734
Location: Riverside,CA Econo Motors
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:08 pm Post subject: Re: Ethanol vs. non-ethanol fuel |
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| Starbucket wrote: |
| that's the 1st thing you buy when you get an old VW |
exactly.. I've had one in every dub I've owned... this thread has encouraged me to buy another fire extinguisher as the one I have is rather old...
I need to do a reroute as well...
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