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vwracerdave
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 15309
Location: Deep in the 405
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 Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 3:49 pm Post subject: Re: Elitism among ACVW onwers |
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| awreed wrote: |
| A few years ago at the XXX Drive-In show |
Why would anybody be looking at a car at the Porno movies. Back when I was a young man the local Drive-In movies had a screen you could not see from the street so they showed real hordcore XXX movies on Saturday after midnight.
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KTPhil 
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34017
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 3:58 pm Post subject: Re: Elitism among ACVW onwers |
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| babysnakes wrote: |
| I've got a friend who has a '74 SB and a 914. We don't even need to get into what a lot of folks think about Supers, but he tells me when he takes his 914 to shows the Porsche guys AND the VW crowd want nothing to do with his little Porsche powered by a T-4 engine. |
Pretty funny, and perhaps a bit ignorant, given the 914's start as a VW (and as successor to the T34), and sales as a VW-Porsche in some European markets. Lots of history and intrigue for the interested.
Back in '70, the 914 was Motor Trend's Import Car of the Year. This link has the article posted:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/lofiversion/index.php?t103040.html
They are fascinating cars and should be of interest to both VW and Porsche fans. It has to just be envy and snobbery, respectively. |
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awreed
Samba Member
Joined: January 14, 2010
Posts: 1268
Location: Kirkland, WA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 4:32 pm Post subject: Re: Elitism among ACVW onwers |
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| vwracerdave wrote: |
| awreed wrote: |
| A few years ago at the XXX Drive-In show |
Why would anybody be looking at a car at the Porno movies. Back when I was a young man the local Drive-In movies had a screen you could not see from the street so they showed real hordcore XXX movies on Saturday after midnight. |
http://www.triplexrootbeer.com/
Man, hard core porno movies on a giant projection screen at this place would make it a real destination. You'd be able to see the screen from I-90. Would not be very family friendly though. |
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hitest
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2008
Posts: 10296
Location: Prime Meridian, ID
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 6:43 pm Post subject: Re: Elitism among ACVW onwers |
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| Helfen wrote: |
| Enkiel wrote: |
Personally, i like all VW to some level. Obviously i have some favourite like split bus and old beetle, but anything interest me.
Also have to agree that the owner make a car cool or not to some level. |
How could a owner make a 100 point restored car cool or not? It is what it is. If two restoration shops both restore the same make, model, options color etc. car and both are 100% perfect the cars would be the same. Both shops reflect the 100% factory perfect car.
On the other hand a guy who customizes his car transfers his personality into a car good or bad, cool or uncool. |
I know you'll see it by this example Helfen. The two owners of your two example 100 pt. cars drive to a show. Both get out, wipe down and one starts knit-picking others' cars. The other guy just walks around the show, says hi to people, asks about the club, etc. The first guy quickly labels himself a douchebag, the second guy as possibly cool. The second show comes around, the douchebag's back at it and the second guy brings something to the potluck. See where I'm going? Identical cars, but the second makes his car cool. Soon the douchebag isn't winning trophies and wonders why, and his bus goes to BJ in January. The coolest people in my group drive cars that just might earn you a tetanus shot. Having a 'cool' car isn't enough if your club has a pulse. Doesn't matter much what you drive.
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| EverettB wrote: |
I wonder what the nut looks like.
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'62 L390 151, '62 L469 117, '63 L380 113, '64 L87 311, '65 L512 265, '65 L31 SO-42, '66 L360 251, '68 L30k 141, '71 L12 113, '74 ORG 181
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Helfen
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 3450
Location: Vulcania
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 7:13 pm Post subject: Re: Elitism among ACVW onwers |
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| hitest wrote: |
| Helfen wrote: |
| Enkiel wrote: |
Personally, i like all VW to some level. Obviously i have some favourite like split bus and old beetle, but anything interest me.
Also have to agree that the owner make a car cool or not to some level. |
How could a owner make a 100 point restored car cool or not? It is what it is. If two restoration shops both restore the same make, model, options color etc. car and both are 100% perfect the cars would be the same. Both shops reflect the 100% factory perfect car.
On the other hand a guy who customizes his car transfers his personality into a car good or bad, cool or uncool. |
I know you'll see it by this example Helfen. The two owners of your two example 100 pt. cars drive to a show. Both get out, wipe down and one starts knit-picking others' cars. The other guy just walks around the show, says hi to people, asks about the club, etc. The first guy quickly labels himself a douchebag, the second guy as possibly cool. The second show comes around, the douchebag's back at it and the second guy brings something to the potluck. See where I'm going? Identical cars, but the second makes his car cool. Soon the douchebag isn't winning trophies and wonders why, and his bus goes to BJ in January. The coolest people in my group drive cars that just might earn you a tetanus shot. Having a 'cool' car isn't enough if your club has a pulse. Doesn't matter much what you drive. |
I see your point, but try to see it a different way. Two 100 point cars identical with two different owners. Let's say it's a AACA event. The judges judge the cars on a point system. They are both perfect and score 100. It doesn't matter if one guy is a good guy or that the other is a jerk. Judges don't look at the owners personality, they are trained not to do that. The only time you get into personalities are at lesser shows where you have cars in a popular vote class. In the end the cars are perfect 100 point inanimate objects based on how they are supposed to be. |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51150
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 7:41 pm Post subject: Re: Elitism among ACVW onwers |
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| Helfen wrote: |
| hitest wrote: |
| Helfen wrote: |
| Enkiel wrote: |
Personally, i like all VW to some level. Obviously i have some favourite like split bus and old beetle, but anything interest me.
Also have to agree that the owner make a car cool or not to some level. |
How could a owner make a 100 point restored car cool or not? It is what it is. If two restoration shops both restore the same make, model, options color etc. car and both are 100% perfect the cars would be the same. Both shops reflect the 100% factory perfect car.
On the other hand a guy who customizes his car transfers his personality into a car good or bad, cool or uncool. |
I know you'll see it by this example Helfen. The two owners of your two example 100 pt. cars drive to a show. Both get out, wipe down and one starts knit-picking others' cars. The other guy just walks around the show, says hi to people, asks about the club, etc. The first guy quickly labels himself a douchebag, the second guy as possibly cool. The second show comes around, the douchebag's back at it and the second guy brings something to the potluck. See where I'm going? Identical cars, but the second makes his car cool. Soon the douchebag isn't winning trophies and wonders why, and his bus goes to BJ in January. The coolest people in my group drive cars that just might earn you a tetanus shot. Having a 'cool' car isn't enough if your club has a pulse. Doesn't matter much what you drive. |
I see your point, but try to see it a different way. Two 100 point cars identical with two different owners. Let's say it's a AACA event. The judges judge the cars on a point system. They are both perfect and score 100. It doesn't matter if one guy is a good guy or that the other is a jerk. Judges don't look at the owners personality, they are trained not to do that. The only time you get into personalities are at lesser shows where you have cars in a popular vote class. In the end the cars are perfect 100 point inanimate objects based on how they are supposed to be. |
But sadly not many VW events or clubs attract the caliber of judge that can impartially distinguish between a real 100 point car and a spray bombed duct tape special that's owned by one of thier "homies", it's a chore to enlist judges at many events as it is, put it in the hands of a particular club for that type and you'll likely end up with like minded thinking with less regard for the effort and more for the buddy system. Unless you hire independant judges (and where do you find those in the VW scene?, everybody knows somebody) there will always be a bias regardless if the owner of the 100 point car is a douchebag or just doesn't regularly hang with the rest of the "in" crowd?
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hitest
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2008
Posts: 10296
Location: Prime Meridian, ID
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:47 pm Post subject: Re: Elitism among ACVW onwers |
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Expanding-
Which 100pt car do you prefer? One of them will be back next year. The other, maybe not. I agree with busdaddy- judging is never 100% impartial to the owner either- AACA can not be immune. I also have yet to meet a show judge that knows more about the cars in my class than me (consider factory overspray patterns under a split bus- or where the two-tone paint line splits at the jambs).
Word spreads really fast in show circuits when there are DBs afoot- it's simply settled by splitting hairs. (I swear that's where the handy term "overrestored" came from)
I've also seen partiality when a photog travels long distances and shoots cars for a popular magazine. Great cars, but DB vs. cool guy will always be a decider- a subject for an entirely different thread... 
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| EverettB wrote: |
I wonder what the nut looks like.
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'62 L390 151, '62 L469 117, '63 L380 113, '64 L87 311, '65 L512 265, '65 L31 SO-42, '66 L360 251, '68 L30k 141, '71 L12 113, '74 ORG 181
FU#5 |
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Helfen
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 3450
Location: Vulcania
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:59 pm Post subject: Re: Elitism among ACVW onwers |
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| hitest wrote: |
Expanding-
Which 100pt car do you prefer? One of them will be back next year. The other, maybe not. I agree with busdaddy- judging is never 100% impartial to the owner either- AACA can not be immune. I also have yet to meet a show judge that knows more about the cars in my class than me (consider factory overspray patterns under a split bus- or where the two-tone paint line splits at the jambs).
Word spreads really fast in show circuits when there are DBs afoot- it's simply settled by splitting hairs. (I swear that's where the handy term "overrestored" came from)
I've also seen partiality when a photog travels long distances and shoots cars for a popular magazine. Great cars, but DB vs. cool guy will always be a decider- a subject for an entirely different thread... |
Points judging has nothing to do with which car you prefer. A AACA event for example your car is never competing with another of the same. You car is competing against itself. Points judging is always that way.
Unless it is a charity show or event where I hang out with friends and none of us would expect a trophy anyway. I would never otherwise enter a contest because it's not a contest but rather a preference. As said before the buddy system, or popular vote by people off the street is a joke and I've seen many cars that should have had recognition loose out to the red car or almost always no matter what condition of a four door loosing out to a hardtop coupe or convertible just because they were a hardtop or convertible. Simply a waste of time if you are looking for recognition with the wrong type of car unless it's points judging. |
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andk5591
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 16758
Location: State College, PA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 4:23 am Post subject: Re: Elitism among ACVW onwers |
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Couple things:
A MANX clone IMHO is a body that has used a Manx or another clone to create the mold. Easy to tell because of windshield/body angles at the sides of the dash. It is an accepted term.
Car owners - some folks are jerks and most folks are not....Doesnt matter whether they even own a a car or not. A jerk is still a jerk. I try to ignore or spend as little time around them as possible.
Elitism - See above - All cars are cool in their own way. Just that some cars interest some people more than others. I mean who in the hell ever thought the domestic 80's pollution/mileage shitboxes would ever become cool and collectible? Folks are into them, and are having fun...
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Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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79SuperVert
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Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 9758
Location: Elizabeth, NJ & La Isla Del Encanto
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:08 am Post subject: Re: Elitism among ACVW onwers |
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I did my part this weekend to counter elitism: Someone arrived at our show too late to participate in the judging. It was evident, though, that he was very excited about his car because he had been working on it a lot, including paint, floor pans, interior, gauges, engine, etc. etc.
I didn't want to just brush him off by saying he was too late. So I walked with him through his class, pointing out which cars stood out at first glance, and we identified three cars that already looked like winners in that class. Then we went over his car, and I pointed out things that he still needed to do to be more competitive. Things like removing or covering the stains in the carpet, putting a radio in the open hole in the dash, getting the right color steering wheel, tidying up the wiring in the engine compartment and making it cleaner.
I told him he was already 90% of the way to being competitive. He thanked me for the advice and promised he would be back next year. I'm hoping this made it fun for him and set a higher standard, without implying that there was anything wrong or inadequate with what he had done so far.
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vwinnovator
Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005
Posts: 1555
Location: Still doing it in the back of your VW
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:29 am Post subject: Re: Elitism among ACVW onwers |
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| 79SuperVert wrote: |
I did my part this weekend to counter elitism: Someone arrived at our show too late to participate in the judging. It was evident, though, that he was very excited about his car because he had been working on it a lot, including paint, floor pans, interior, gauges, engine, etc. etc.
I didn't want to just brush him off by saying he was too late. So I walked with him through his class, pointing out which cars stood out at first glance, and we identified three cars that already looked like winners in that class. Then we went over his car, and I pointed out things that he still needed to do to be more competitive. Things like removing or covering the stains in the carpet, putting a radio in the open hole in the dash, getting the right color steering wheel, tidying up the wiring in the engine compartment and making it cleaner.
I told him he was already 90% of the way to being competitive. He thanked me for the advice and promised he would be back next year. I'm hoping this made it fun for him and set a higher standard, without implying that there was anything wrong or inadequate with what he had done so far. |
 So you Elitowned him!! letting him know his car wasn't good enough yet... |
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79SuperVert
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 9758
Location: Elizabeth, NJ & La Isla Del Encanto
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 12:28 pm Post subject: Re: Elitism among ACVW onwers |
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No need to...he was already in the best class: 58-67 Beetles 
But seriously...if he hadn't been so eager to be in the judging, I wouldn't have said anything to him. People come to shows for different reasons, and we aim to please them all.
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Central Jersey VW Society
Wanted: Art Collins VW (Savannah, Georgia) items - license plate surrounds and other items. Also ivory "AM", "FM" and "SW" buttons for a US Blaupunkt Frankfurt. |
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kingkarmann
Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2003
Posts: 4114
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| Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 9:48 am Post subject: Re: Elitism among ACVW onwers |
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| 79SuperVert wrote: |
I did my part this weekend to counter elitism: Someone arrived at our show too late to participate in the judging. It was evident, though, that he was very excited about his car because he had been working on it a lot, including paint, floor pans, interior, gauges, engine, etc. etc.
I didn't want to just brush him off by saying he was too late. So I walked with him through his class, pointing out which cars stood out at first glance, and we identified three cars that already looked like winners in that class. Then we went over his car, and I pointed out things that he still needed to do to be more competitive. Things like removing or covering the stains in the carpet, putting a radio in the open hole in the dash, getting the right color steering wheel, tidying up the wiring in the engine compartment and making it cleaner.
I told him he was already 90% of the way to being competitive. He thanked me for the advice and promised he would be back next year. I'm hoping this made it fun for him and set a higher standard, without implying that there was anything wrong or inadequate with what he had done so far. |
EXACTLY!
This relates well to my experience last weekend;
I participated in a concours event which can breed a lot of elitism for sure. Unusually this year, a class was created for air-cooled VW's. Our group of 8-9 VW's were very eclectic. A wrought iron bodied beetle, a couple of Ghia's a Type 3 Fastback, customized dual cab, baja beetle, stock late model Super Beetle and a very tall (you could stand in it) bus.
I met owner of the 73 Ghia some years ago and liked the mods I had done to my Ghia. He incorporated some of my modifications and added his own personal touches. He was rewarded with an "Award of Excellence".
We all learn from each other and enjoy this common bond. Our little air-cooled class received an amazing amount of attention not only spectators but the owners of Tuckers, Bugatti's, Ferrari's and the like. Every VW owner I met that day just felt privileged to be invited.
On the other hand.........
The guy/gal who "just knows" his/her VW is the best of the best, rolls out the carpet, stantions, chain and guard dogs to protect that "museum piece" is usually uniterested in the VW hobby or caring to engage with any of the participants. Kind of sad.
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TDCTDI
Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013
Posts: 12857
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:13 am Post subject: Re: Elitism among ACVW onwers |
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The most fun is when you receive trophies at car shows that you didn't enter other than showing up. I got a people's choice award at an all Ford show when I parked my '64 Cortina GT near some of the other participants, & another people's choice award with my '61 Morris mini at another show (& I was parked next to a Daytona Superbird, the mini was exactly half the length.).
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atticus finch
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Joined: March 06, 2014
Posts: 126
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| Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 3:39 pm Post subject: Re: Elitism among ACVW onwers |
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Never run into any "elitism" amongst air-cooled VW......so far.
My book, if it's air-cooled it's a VW and no reason to look down on model or year. I exclude porsche as that is a different mfg, if it's air-cooled and says VW on the badge, then it qualifies.
I do draw the line at air-cooled being bonafide VW, if it has a water pump then it doesnt' compare to the original "VW"
And I have noticed the water-cooled crowd do seem to have an attitude towards the air-cooled, I've gotten some jealous and/or nasty looks while driving my `70 beetle. If a water-cooled driver does wave, I'll return the courtesy but they are still in my book in the same category as any other late-model car as they are mechanically the same.
Which is why I draw the line at water-cooled, you dislike air-cooled because it has a cultural cache your late-model doesn't have? Too bad, air-cooled earned it's place within our culture for being what it is.
It's reputation for mechanical toughness and reliability is a reputation it properly earned, ditto for it's undefinable ability to engender a relationship with it's owner.
Water cooled are just like most other cars on the road, reliable yet soul-less, air-cooled are different and have a different place within our culture and it earned that status. |
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Helfen
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 3450
Location: Vulcania
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| Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:39 pm Post subject: Re: Elitism among ACVW onwers |
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| atticus finch wrote: |
Never run into any "elitism" amongst air-cooled VW......so far.
My book, if it's air-cooled it's a VW and no reason to look down on model or year. I exclude porsche as that is a different mfg, if it's air-cooled and says VW on the badge, then it qualifies.
I do draw the line at air-cooled being bonafide VW, if it has a water pump then it doesnt' compare to the original "VW"
And I have noticed the water-cooled crowd do seem to have an attitude towards the air-cooled, I've gotten some jealous and/or nasty looks while driving my `70 beetle. If a water-cooled driver does wave, I'll return the courtesy but they are still in my book in the same category as any other late-model car as they are mechanically the same.
Which is why I draw the line at water-cooled, you dislike air-cooled because it has a cultural cache your late-model doesn't have? Too bad, air-cooled earned it's place within our culture for being what it is.
It's reputation for mechanical toughness and reliability is a reputation it properly earned, ditto for it's undefinable ability to engender a relationship with it's owner.
Water cooled are just like most other cars on the road, reliable yet soul-less, air-cooled are different and have a different place within our culture and it earned that status. |
Do you know air cooled people who look down on water cooled cars and in that by definition are elitists? |
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atticus finch
Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2014
Posts: 126
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 8:41 am Post subject: Re: Elitism among ACVW onwers |
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| Helfen wrote: |
| atticus finch wrote: |
Never run into any "elitism" amongst air-cooled VW......so far.
My book, if it's air-cooled it's a VW and no reason to look down on model or year. I exclude porsche as that is a different mfg, if it's air-cooled and says VW on the badge, then it qualifies.
I do draw the line at air-cooled being bonafide VW, if it has a water pump then it doesnt' compare to the original "VW"
And I have noticed the water-cooled crowd do seem to have an attitude towards the air-cooled, I've gotten some jealous and/or nasty looks while driving my `70 beetle. If a water-cooled driver does wave, I'll return the courtesy but they are still in my book in the same category as any other late-model car as they are mechanically the same.
Which is why I draw the line at water-cooled, you dislike air-cooled because it has a cultural cache your late-model doesn't have? Too bad, air-cooled earned it's place within our culture for being what it is.
It's reputation for mechanical toughness and reliability is a reputation it properly earned, ditto for it's undefinable ability to engender a relationship with it's owner.
Water cooled are just like most other cars on the road, reliable yet soul-less, air-cooled are different and have a different place within our culture and it earned that status. |
Do you know air cooled people who look down on water cooled cars and in that by definition are elitists? |
I won't say you're wrong, however I'm not convinced you're entirely correct.
From a cultural / historical standpoint, 'VW' meant air-cooled and especially from a cultural standpoint in the minds of most people that I meet it still does.
From a technical standpoint, it is still the same company making cars and by virtue of that fact they are still a VW.
However those cars no longer differentiate themselves from everything else on the road by virtue of what they are, due to the reasons I wrote.
I am genuinely astounded at the reactions I get when I'm driving my `70 beetle, my neighbor told me to be prepared for it but I didn't believe him.
The majority of responses I get are along the lines of: " VW isn't what they used to be, they don't make cars like these anymore. They should bring these back"
It is a fact given the modern technical environment that will never happen, emissions controls, current technological requirements, & so forth will never allow that to happen. It is partly what killed off the beetle in the first place. However that fact doesn't change the truth of the reactions my beetle gets and the cultural / historical status it has attained.
Add edit: to clarify my point, I look at the modern "VW" not so much as inferior or junk. From a technical standpoint the beetle doesn't even begin to compare to the modern car. However they are not the same as what built VW and what is traditionally associated with those cars, modern cars have not stood the test of time in terms of thier longevity, the beetle has. |
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Helfen
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 3450
Location: Vulcania
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 10:29 am Post subject: Re: Elitism among ACVW onwers |
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| atticus finch wrote: |
| Helfen wrote: |
| atticus finch wrote: |
Never run into any "elitism" amongst air-cooled VW......so far.
My book, if it's air-cooled it's a VW and no reason to look down on model or year. I exclude porsche as that is a different mfg, if it's air-cooled and says VW on the badge, then it qualifies.
I do draw the line at air-cooled being bonafide VW, if it has a water pump then it doesnt' compare to the original "VW"
And I have noticed the water-cooled crowd do seem to have an attitude towards the air-cooled, I've gotten some jealous and/or nasty looks while driving my `70 beetle. If a water-cooled driver does wave, I'll return the courtesy but they are still in my book in the same category as any other late-model car as they are mechanically the same.
Which is why I draw the line at water-cooled, you dislike air-cooled because it has a cultural cache your late-model doesn't have? Too bad, air-cooled earned it's place within our culture for being what it is.
It's reputation for mechanical toughness and reliability is a reputation it properly earned, ditto for it's undefinable ability to engender a relationship with it's owner.
Water cooled are just like most other cars on the road, reliable yet soul-less, air-cooled are different and have a different place within our culture and it earned that status. |
Do you know air cooled people who look down on water cooled cars and in that by definition are elitists? |
I won't say you're wrong, however I'm not convinced you're entirely correct.
From a cultural / historical standpoint, 'VW' meant air-cooled and especially from a cultural standpoint in the minds of most people that I meet it still does.
From a technical standpoint, it is still the same company making cars and by virtue of that fact they are still a VW.
However those cars no longer differentiate themselves from everything else on the road by virtue of what they are, due to the reasons I wrote.
I am genuinely astounded at the reactions I get when I'm driving my `70 beetle, my neighbor told me to be prepared for it but I didn't believe him.
The majority of responses I get are along the lines of: " VW isn't what they used to be, they don't make cars like these anymore. They should bring these back"
It is a fact given the modern technical environment that will never happen, emissions controls, current technological requirements, & so forth will never allow that to happen. It is partly what killed off the beetle in the first place. However that fact doesn't change the truth of the reactions my beetle gets and the cultural / historical status it has attained.
Add edit: to clarify my point, I look at the modern "VW" not so much as inferior or junk. From a technical standpoint the beetle doesn't even begin to compare to the modern car. However they are not the same as what built VW and what is traditionally associated with those cars, modern cars have not stood the test of time in terms of thier longevity, the beetle has. |
I can certainly understand your point on VW and it's association air cooled because if you look at the propaganda VW used on us in their adds about no water no radiator, no water pump, the engine goes out back because that's where you can get the best traction etc. But the other side of the metal is the fact that by 1973 VW was in hard times and the car that pulled the rabbit out of the hat was the Rabbit/Golf. Ironically the Golf concept was just the opposite of what VW used to tell us, but it was VW's savior. Look at a well preserved or restored early Golf, they are easy to work on and get great mileage, and brake and handle well. Except for the old feeling you get in a air cooled VW the early Golf does everything better.
I remember in the mid 70's when the Vintage Volkswagen Club of America started. There were people who wanted splits and oval windows only. Finally they worked out that it was when a car turned a certain age for a car to be accepted. The Porsche group was no different. To some a water cooled Porsche is not a Porsche...including a 9 series water boxer.
The older I get the more accepting I become of all types of cars and try to understand how and why they were created. When you do this it's easier to appreciate all of them. |
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itskyle
Samba Member
Joined: October 04, 2013
Posts: 634
Location: Plainfield, IN
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 6:41 pm Post subject: Re: Elitism among ACVW onwers |
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| atticus finch wrote: |
Never run into any "elitism" amongst air-cooled VW......so far.
My book, if it's air-cooled it's a VW and no reason to look down on model or year. I exclude porsche as that is a different mfg, if it's air-cooled and says VW on the badge, then it qualifies.
I do draw the line at air-cooled being bonafide VW, if it has a water pump then it doesnt' compare to the original "VW"
And I have noticed the water-cooled crowd do seem to have an attitude towards the air-cooled, I've gotten some jealous and/or nasty looks while driving my `70 beetle. If a water-cooled driver does wave, I'll return the courtesy but they are still in my book in the same category as any other late-model car as they are mechanically the same.
Which is why I draw the line at water-cooled, you dislike air-cooled because it has a cultural cache your late-model doesn't have? Too bad, air-cooled earned it's place within our culture for being what it is.
It's reputation for mechanical toughness and reliability is a reputation it properly earned, ditto for it's undefinable ability to engender a relationship with it's owner.
Water cooled are just like most other cars on the road, reliable yet soul-less, air-cooled are different and have a different place within our culture and it earned that status. |
I don't necessarily look down at the new vw water cooled crowd, that being said, I think he is on to something here about the air cooled engine vs. water cooled engine debate.
Think about this for a second, the most abused, ignored, and neglected internal combustion engines usually sit in somebody's barn, shed, or garage. Almost every lawn mowing implement that is gasoline powered, is air cooled. Most small boat engines are also air cooled.
Think about it. How willing would your weed wipper, push mower, or riding mower, or small bass boat trolling motor be if you totally neglected it over the harsh winter months and they were water cooled?
Now, motorcycles are going away from air-cooled, and going into water cooled, perhaps, not necessarily by consumer demand, but by governmental agency demand.
Kyle
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69 or 72 Autostick Bug current
66 Bug (We both miss it)
74 SuperBeetle Auto Stick (I miss that car)
73 SquareBack, Straight Stick (Wife misses this one.) |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51150
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 7:10 pm Post subject: Re: Elitism among ACVW onwers |
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I wave at watercooleds when they are clearly a classic that's someone's pride and joy, nearly all wave back as well, regardless of how it's cooled you can tell when someone cares about thier car (stock or modified). A super clean early Scirocco or Rabbit can't be any easier to find good parts for than a bus, I also wave at other makes when the car appears to be well cared for. The super slammity rat look guys don't seem to play in the same sandbox but I wave at them too just to mess with thier heads. The pizza guy with the dragging muffler, duct taped bumper, smoke screen and boom system is a totally different breed, that's just an appliance and he couldn't recognize a nice car if it ran him over, no wave for you.
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