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Aerindel
Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2015
Posts: 459
Location: Western Montana
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 Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:48 am Post subject: |
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I don't know enough about the various brands to recommend a kit, just that I think you made the right call and are going to end up with a lot nicer buggy in the end for not a lot more money than if you re-built yours.
I would recommend against a four seater with that engine. Even in my 1600 dual port I can feel a significant power loss with just a single passenger on board. Stick three more in with that horsepower and I'm not sure it would perform much better than a regular car.
_________________
Homemade woods/street, bug out rail. IRS, Balljoint front end. 1967 1600cc DP, Weber 32/36 progressive, tri-mil quiet pack. Rear only cutting brakes.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=630046 |
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michaelrulaz
Samba Member
Joined: February 28, 2015
Posts: 12
Location: Debary, FL
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| Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:44 am Post subject: |
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Well if I can get scoop up one of these kits for a decent price I'm going to order tonight. I'm down in Florida so shipping is worrying me.
I'm worried that my front end with the ball joints is welded onto my current frame so I might need another one and I'm going to need a rear suspension setup too now.
I've been designing my wiring harness and I think I am almost done. I just need to figure out some little odds and ends. (I'll post the design later). I need to clean up my old drums and E-brake to see what's all salvageable. I am also going to need to take my current rims and try to sand blast them and see how bad the rust is. I am considering an engine overhaul but I may just do basic stuff and wait on that till later. I am getting anxious to drive this thing.
Any seat recommendations? I want something easy to clean if it gets wet or muddy but I want to avoid leather since I do live in Florida. Preferably able to hold a 5pt harness.
Also what do you guys use for form around the tubing? I feel like it's just pool noodle and zip ties lol |
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Sandjunky
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2015
Posts: 292
Location: New Mexico
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| Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| michaelrulaz wrote: |
Well if I can get scoop up one of these kits for a decent price I'm going to order tonight. I'm down in Florida so shipping is worrying me.
I'm worried that my front end with the ball joints is welded onto my current frame so I might need another one and I'm going to need a rear suspension setup too now.
I've been designing my wiring harness and I think I am almost done. I just need to figure out some little odds and ends. (I'll post the design later). I need to clean up my old drums and E-brake to see what's all salvageable. I am also going to need to take my current rims and try to sand blast them and see how bad the rust is. I am considering an engine overhaul but I may just do basic stuff and wait on that till later. I am getting anxious to drive this thing.
Any seat recommendations? I want something easy to clean if it gets wet or muddy but I want to avoid leather since I do live in Florida. Preferably able to hold a 5pt harness.
Also what do you guys use for form around the tubing? I feel like it's just pool noodle and zip ties lol |
If you buy a new chassis kit you will learn a lot about sand rails through the build process. Don't worry about the details like seats and things like that until you get the chassis in front of you, then you can take measurements. If your front end is welded in then that is a good indication the "builder" had very little idea what they were doing, which is already apparent in the pics you posted. Pick up a quality angle grinder and some cutoff wheels and sanding/grinding wheels and see if it is salvageable. If not then you can shop around for a decent front axle locally.
You should be able to salvage your torsion housing from your rail or order a chassis with a modified torsion housing. Its worth the extra money. They are lighter weight.
Do you know how to weld? |
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GoMopar440
Samba Member
Joined: February 06, 2015
Posts: 491
Location: Montana
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| Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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My rail (the one in my sig link) also has the front axle welded on by the PO. I always thought of it as a mistake, but I've heard from some guys that off road these things a lot, that it was probably done to keep the axle from being able to slip out of position in case of a frontal impact. That would have been fine, except the PO used a bent front axle to start with when they welded it. Now I have a front end that can't ever be properly aligned. All the bodywork I did to it, which I hand made and custom fitted to work with my frame and axle, would have to be completely redone if I ever replaced the bent axle. Rather than try to mess with that I'm just going to replace the frame and swap all all my parts over to the new frame when it's ready. I'll be using a standard front axle clamp arrangement so I can service or replace the axle in the future if need be. My rail will be used approximately 90-95% on road, so I don't see the need to weld the axle to the new frame in my case.
If your front axle is straight and in good mechanical condition, you could carefully cut it off of your existing frame and then bolt it onto the new one. If it needs work you could still use it (as long as it's straight) and use it to learn how the front VW bug axles work in the process. They're pretty straightforward assemblies to work on. Also it would be a good way to give yourself some confidence to learn how to work on your own rail.
_________________
Homemade rail for street & off road: BJ front beam (bent), IRS rear (boxed/maybe bent), stock T1 DP 1600, 009, 34PICT-3 (soon to be dual 40HPMXs), 4-1 glass pack exh, T3 brakes (F disk, R drum & Dual MC), Bug trans (002, 5 rib going in soon).
Link to my rail (re)build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=629493 |
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dustymojave
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 5802
Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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| Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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The shock towers on that red danger buggy are turned 90° from how they should be, which is hard on the shocks.
You could go to Harbor Freight and get a sawzall and 4.5" grinder for far less than the cost of a junkyard beam, to cut the frame tubing right next to the beam and use that beam in the new frame. But if you do, you will need to make new shock mounts.
You can also cut the rear torsion housing assembly out and use it in the new frame.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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michaelrulaz
Samba Member
Joined: February 28, 2015
Posts: 12
Location: Debary, FL
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| Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Sandjunky wrote: |
| michaelrulaz wrote: |
Well if I can get scoop up one of these kits for a decent price I'm going to order tonight. I'm down in Florida so shipping is worrying me.
I'm worried that my front end with the ball joints is welded onto my current frame so I might need another one and I'm going to need a rear suspension setup too now.
I've been designing my wiring harness and I think I am almost done. I just need to figure out some little odds and ends. (I'll post the design later). I need to clean up my old drums and E-brake to see what's all salvageable. I am also going to need to take my current rims and try to sand blast them and see how bad the rust is. I am considering an engine overhaul but I may just do basic stuff and wait on that till later. I am getting anxious to drive this thing.
Any seat recommendations? I want something easy to clean if it gets wet or muddy but I want to avoid leather since I do live in Florida. Preferably able to hold a 5pt harness.
Also what do you guys use for form around the tubing? I feel like it's just pool noodle and zip ties lol |
If you buy a new chassis kit you will learn a lot about sand rails through the build process. Don't worry about the details like seats and things like that until you get the chassis in front of you, then you can take measurements. If your front end is welded in then that is a good indication the "builder" had very little idea what they were doing, which is already apparent in the pics you posted. Pick up a quality angle grinder and some cutoff wheels and sanding/grinding wheels and see if it is salvageable. If not then you can shop around for a decent front axle locally.
You should be able to salvage your torsion housing from your rail or order a chassis with a modified torsion housing. Its worth the extra money. They are lighter weight.
Do you know how to weld? |
The situation is that I travel 95% of the time. So I am only home like 6 days a month. I have to have all these parts order & delivered so I can spend my precious few days working.
I can stick weld fairly decently (I have been watching videos on welding tube). I am going to head to my local metal facility and pick up some tubing to really practice on. My bestfriend's dad & uncle are both extremely experienced welders and they use a MIG.
| GoMopar440 wrote: |
My rail (the one in my sig link) also has the front axle welded on by the PO. I always thought of it as a mistake, but I've heard from some guys that off road these things a lot, that it was probably done to keep the axle from being able to slip out of position in case of a frontal impact. That would have been fine, except the PO used a bent front axle to start with when they welded it. Now I have a front end that can't ever be properly aligned. All the bodywork I did to it, which I hand made and custom fitted to work with my frame and axle, would have to be completely redone if I ever replaced the bent axle. Rather than try to mess with that I'm just going to replace the frame and swap all all my parts over to the new frame when it's ready. I'll be using a standard front axle clamp arrangement so I can service or replace the axle in the future if need be. My rail will be used approximately 90-95% on road, so I don't see the need to weld the axle to the new frame in my case.
If your front axle is straight and in good mechanical condition, you could carefully cut it off of your existing frame and then bolt it onto the new one. If it needs work you could still use it (as long as it's straight) and use it to learn how the front VW bug axles work in the process. They're pretty straightforward assemblies to work on. Also it would be a good way to give yourself some confidence to learn how to work on your own rail. |
My bestfriend's dad said basically the same thing about the welding. Me and Him are complete opposites with this stuff. I prefer to handle things the correct way and I'm willing to spend additional time making sure everything is right and looks good. He is more of a backyard mechanic and his solution is welding and redneck ingenuity.
Its not that I am not confident in my ability to work on it. I have quite resume with car builds. I just never have worked on anything foreign and most of my experience is Chevy cars/trucks with rear wheel drive. I currently work insurance Property and Auto so I am familiar with parts and how they work.
| dustymojave wrote: |
The shock towers on that red danger buggy are turned 90° from how they should be, which is hard on the shocks.
You could go to Harbor Freight and get a sawzall and 4.5" grinder for far less than the cost of a junkyard beam, to cut the frame tubing right next to the beam and use that beam in the new frame. But if you do, you will need to make new shock mounts.
You can also cut the rear torsion housing assembly out and use it in the new frame. |
Since I am not near the buggy currently I really cant understand what your talking about with the shocks without seeing them in person. I have a grinder (visible in a few pics), and a cutting torch so im going to attempt to cut them out to save money. I have a 5k break even point and with the chassis i just ordered I am at 1850.00 into it currently. |
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dustymojave
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 5802
Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:02 am Post subject: |
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| michaelrulaz wrote: |
Any seat recommendations? I want something easy to clean if it gets wet or muddy but I want to avoid leather since I do live in Florida. Preferably able to hold a 5pt harness. |
Poly seats. One piece molded plastic. Available through outfits like Summit or Jeg's or Speedway Motors. If they are gonna get muddy or wet, just leave them without covers. Vinyl covers are hotter than the bare textured plastic in the sun and can be a PITA to clean and cost about $100 a pair.
| michaelrulaz wrote: |
| Also what do you guys use for foam (edited) around the tubing? I feel like it's just pool noodle and zip ties lol |
There is roll cage specific foam tube for the job. But honestly...Most guys get WAAYYY carried away with it. It's not that much needed. And pool noodles aren't too bad at the job.
| Sandjunky wrote: |
If you buy a new chassis kit you will learn a lot about sand rails through the build process. Don't worry about the details like seats and things like that until you get the chassis in front of you, then you can take measurements. If your front end is welded in then that is a good indication the "builder" had very little idea what they were doing, which is already apparent in the pics you posted. Pick up a quality angle grinder and some cutoff wheels and sanding/grinding wheels and see if it is salvageable. If not then you can shop around for a decent front axle locally.
You should be able to salvage your torsion housing from your rail or order a chassis with a modified torsion housing. Its worth the extra money. They are lighter weight. |
| GoMopar440 wrote: |
| If your front axle is straight and in good mechanical condition, you could carefully cut it off of your existing frame and then bolt it onto the new one. If it needs work you could still use it (as long as it's straight) ... |
| dustymojave wrote: |
| The shock towers on that red danger buggy are turned 90° from how they should be, which is hard on the shocks. |
You can also cut the rear torsion housing assembly out and use it in the new frame.[/quote]
| michaelrulaz wrote: |
| Since I am not near the buggy currently I really cant understand what your talking about with the shocks without seeing them in person. I have a grinder (visible in a few pics), and a cutting torch so im going to attempt to cut them out to save money. |
The upper shock mounts on that ball joint beam were originally pin-type. To install those junky shocks with their not-needed coilover springs (many buggy guys, especially those who use theirs mostly on the pavement, complain on here all the time about how the stock springs and shocks are too stiff, more springs were not needed), the original shock mounts were hacked off and replaced with new mounts with a horizontal bolt. That's OK, but the top bolts are turned so the bolt points fore and aft. The upper mount bolts should be parallel to the bottom shock mount bolts which are left to right. So when you hit a bump and compress the shock, the 2 ends of the shock are being moved in ways they are not designed to accept and fight each other. Look through the offroad forum here for buggies with the early style linkpin front beam to see how their shock mounts are made.
The torsion housing may still have the VIN number that is on the title for the car. (it's on top of the tunnel, just in front of the access hole for the shifter linkage coupling.) If it IS...Then keep that part of the tunnel in the new buggy along with the torsion housing.
| michaelrulaz wrote: |
| I have a 5k break even point and with the chassis i just ordered I am at 1850.00 into it currently. |
Would you care to post a pic or a link to the frame you ordered? And does that include shipping?
And I suggest that once you have the new frame in hand you just keep going with this thread as a build thread and we can advise you as you build the car. I can think of many areas where I have advice for you already, but I don't want to confuse you. Like where to cut on the old frame, what to keep, and what to send to the scrap yard; and where and how to mount your 5-point harnesses.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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michaelrulaz
Samba Member
Joined: February 28, 2015
Posts: 12
Location: Debary, FL
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:27 am Post subject: |
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I see what your saying about the shocks now. That shouldnt be to hard to fab up, but i might look into replacements just so it looks clean.
I am going to try to re-use the torsion housing to save some cash. But as far as the VIN number goes it wont match. I'm not going to lie - the title I have isnt for this buggy. My bestfriend's dad had a lot of these back in the day and he did a lot of work for a scrap yard that would give him titles from old buggies... So i snagged one that way.
I didnt mean I spent 1850 on a frame.
Red danger Buggy = 750.00
Title = 100.00
50' brake line, wheel cylinders, master cylinder, flare tool, etc = 190.00
New frame 800.00
The frame I am getting is this http://beelinechassis.net/1cobra2.html
I plan to keep everything organized in this thread just for the sake of ease. But I appreciate all the help. I have no problem being cheap on minor stuff but I have seen to many accidents happen and if the person had proper safety equipment they would still be around. My first car wreck me and my girfriend walked away from because my car had a decent roll cage (600hp LS1 4th gen F-body build) we rolled about 6 times before we stopped. |
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michaelrulaz
Samba Member
Joined: February 28, 2015
Posts: 12
Location: Debary, FL
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| Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:19 pm Post subject: Re: My new toy... needs a resurrection |
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Hey Guys!
I know its been a while since I posted an update. Things have been crazy between work, house searching, depression, etc.
Originally I was looking at a Beeline frame but after reaching out to the company I found them to be very unprofessional and downright useless. I called numerous times for a quote on shipping it to Florida. Each phone call was met with the same line "ill need to call Fedex/UPS to get a quote and call you back." Now I understand this takes time but I called about twice a week for three weeks and finally offered to give the gentleman my Fedex account and just to charge the shipping, no matter the cost to me. Apparently that was not an option.
So I moved on and eventually about three weeks ago I purchased a frame from Fishers Buggies in Tampa FL. They had a welded frame ready to go for a little under $1000.00 and it was in driving range. The frame came pre-welded. I immediately set up some tarps and put a few coats of Rustoleum Automotive primer on it to prevent rusting.
The frame I selected is a king pin front end. I have a nice new one being shipped since the prior buggy had a bent up ball joint front end.
QUESTION TIME: I am not planning on reusing any of the sub-frame or tunnel. I need the rear-end w/ transaxel off. Any idea what I unbolt or what I need to cut and weld to the new frame. I have an idea of what needs to be done but I want to check.
Thanks!!! |
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cbeck
Samba Member
Joined: January 14, 2014
Posts: 2495
Location: high ridge, mo
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 3:55 am Post subject: Re: My new toy... needs a resurrection |
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Hope this helps.
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