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davidw99
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2003
Posts: 696
Location: Boston, MA
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 Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:14 am Post subject: Re: Battery Draining While Driving |
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| ashman40 wrote: |
This is not a good sign. Either your battery was NOT fully charged, or it was and is in bad shape such that it cannot hold a charge. One or two starts should not cause a two month old battery to drop so much that the starter has a hard time turning.
Take a known good battery from another car and jump start your car. If having the extra battery connected allows the starter to easily crank the engine then it indicates your battery was weak. Again, cannot tell at this point if it was not yet fully charged or just bad. It wouldn't hurt to get it fully charged (trickle charge overnight) and take it to your FLAPS and have them load test it. As long as the battery is fully charged, they should be able to tell you if the battery is bad or not. |
I jumped the VW from my Focus and the starter did turn easily and the car started right up.
I did then trickle charge the battery and take it to the store I bought it from. They "load tested" it and said it was fine. I'm not exactly sure how a battery is load tested but they hooked it up to something that looked like a large volt meter. They did say that they would give me my money back it I wanted. I'm going to get a Duracell maintenance-free battery today and give that a try. If the car starts right up then the old(er) battery goes back.
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Dave
'73 Saturn Yellow Sports Bug that has undergone a full pan off restoration. "Herbert IV."
'67 Sedan. "Bellamy." Currently being "refreshed" and recently repainted. |
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JKLNHYD
Samba Member
Joined: July 21, 2007
Posts: 260
Location: Pasadena, CA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:48 am Post subject: Re: Battery Draining While Driving |
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| davidw99 wrote: |
| The battery is new this year. The old battery (two years old) had the same symptoms. One cell in the battery was slight low on water. It could have come that way. The alternator is new this year (and working well by the numbers above). The electrical part of the ignition switch is new this year. |
As mentioned, triple check your wiring integrity from the aternator to battery and battery to starter.
I just recently bought my car, and it was cranking hard 4-5 times before it would start. Finally one day at the grocery store, it wouldnt crank so I push started it to get home. I had the battery checked at Auto Zone, and it checked out as good. I bought a rebuilt starter and put it in.
While under the car, I noticed that the connector on the wire from battery to starter was one of those ring crimp on types, and that the cable was at it's maximum length, causing the metal on the connector to bend at a 90 degree.
Ok, so I had 4 gauge wire, but a small flimsy connector? So that is like sneaking a fat chick home, and you don't want anyone to know so you try and squeeze her through the dog door, No bueno.
I went and got a 40" 4 gauge battery wire, about 10" longer than was on it, with a standard 4 gauge factory crimped connector and put it on. I also noticed that I have a nice little relay tucked up under there with a blown fuse.
My biggest mistake has alway been that I assume the previous owner has done things correctly. If I would have left the wiring as is, I would have burned up another starter in a matter of months, then blamed the starter.
Maybe not your solution, but definitely cant hurt.
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Jon
1971 1776 |
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davidw99
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2003
Posts: 696
Location: Boston, MA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:32 am Post subject: Re: Battery Draining While Driving |
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JKLNHYD, thanks for your suggestions. I have checked the wring and connections. They seem fine. I am the previous owner (at least since 1982) and I rebuilt the car between 2004 and 2006. This problem has only crept up recently. If a new battery doesn't do the trick I will give the wiring another check.
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Dave
'73 Saturn Yellow Sports Bug that has undergone a full pan off restoration. "Herbert IV."
'67 Sedan. "Bellamy." Currently being "refreshed" and recently repainted. |
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adrian5610
Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2008
Posts: 27
Location: Plano, Tx
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:11 am Post subject: Re: Battery Draining While Driving |
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| I had this problem when I first got my bug and went through almost all this stuff you're doing. I have a generator but I think they are pretty much the same. I had to finally just go and get a new generator after doing all the tests and everything for about 3 months. Everything (at least electrical) has been fine since which is about 4 years now |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31380
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:34 am Post subject: Re: Battery Draining While Driving |
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| davidw99 wrote: |
| I jumped the VW from my Focus and the starter did turn easily and the car started right up. |
I'd say this eliminates the starter and the wiring.
So "all" you need to do now is figure out (1) if battery is charging properly
(2) if battery is truly OK
(3) if there's a parasitic drain
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1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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davidw99
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2003
Posts: 696
Location: Boston, MA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:46 am Post subject: Re: Battery Draining While Driving |
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| Cusser wrote: |
| davidw99 wrote: |
| I jumped the VW from my Focus and the starter did turn easily and the car started right up. |
I'd say this eliminates the starter and the wiring.
So "all" you need to do now is figure out (1) if battery is charging properly
(2) if battery is truly OK
(3) if there's a parasitic drain |
1) I believe the battery is charging properly because of the volt meter readings across the battery terminals when the car is running. I took the car out for a drive and had the volt meter on the entire time. Reading was 14.22 - 14.27 when driving and 14.10 - 14.11 when idling. Since the battery charges with a trickle charger I presume the battery can be charged and with the volt meter readings presume the alternator is capable of charging the battery. So the question is why the battery doesn't hold a charge.
2) I did get a new battery that I put in last evening. I had the place I bought it from (Batteries Plus) also load test the old battery. It checked good initially but then lost 100 cold cranking amps in about 10 - 15 secs. I don't know if this indicates a problem with the battery holding a charge.
3) I do have a radio with memory. However, if the car starts, even slowly, I would expect the battery to recharge after 45 minutes at highway speed. Not get worse. I know this points to a problem with charging but the good readings indicate otherwise. I disconnected the radio to stop any drain. I checked for drain by touching the ground strap to the negative terminal and there were no sparks at all but sparks when the key was on (positive test). I left the radio disconnected.
4) The volt meter reading after I stopped the car was 12.69 and it dropped to 12.51 in one hour but seemed to level off at 12.48. I started the car and drove it into the garage where I shut if off and started it a second time. This time it barely cranked and the volts dropped to 10.19 before it did (barely) start. So, it seems that something is (sometimes, anyway) sucking up battery power at start-up. [EDIT- I've been reading and it seems a drop to about 10v is not unusual for the battery at start up]. I'm back to the starter. Could this be a sign it's going bad? The connections are clean. A couple of hours after the drop to 10.19 volts during the start, the battery is at 12.38 volts. I only ran the car for a minute so it could not have recharged from the alternator.
EDIT - It seems that something is sometimes causing a drag on the engine when starting. Is the starter causing a drag some how? Engine turns easily by hand. This may also explain why/how the AAA man's battery jump box drained so quickly.
Thoughts?
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Dave
'73 Saturn Yellow Sports Bug that has undergone a full pan off restoration. "Herbert IV."
'67 Sedan. "Bellamy." Currently being "refreshed" and recently repainted. |
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davidw99
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2003
Posts: 696
Location: Boston, MA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: Battery Draining While Driving - SOLVED |
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Solved - It was the starter. I had to move the car over in the garage to make room to work on it and it barely cranked over. With the new starter it whirled to life with a touch of the key. Ye Haw!
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Dave
'73 Saturn Yellow Sports Bug that has undergone a full pan off restoration. "Herbert IV."
'67 Sedan. "Bellamy." Currently being "refreshed" and recently repainted. |
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 15987
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 7:19 am Post subject: Re: Battery Draining While Driving - SOLVED |
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Great to hear you found your problem.
Did you remember to replace the bronze bushing for the nose of the starter gear in the trans housing?
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AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road  }
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STEAK_BUG72
Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2016
Posts: 106
Location: BARRIE, ONT
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 8:43 pm Post subject: Re: Battery Draining While Driving - SOLVED |
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| We may never know. |
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davidw99
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2003
Posts: 696
Location: Boston, MA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 4:51 pm Post subject: Re: Battery Draining While Driving - SOLVED |
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Well, if your really wantt to know, yes.
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Dave
'73 Saturn Yellow Sports Bug that has undergone a full pan off restoration. "Herbert IV."
'67 Sedan. "Bellamy." Currently being "refreshed" and recently repainted. |
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vamram 
Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012
Posts: 7306
Location: NOVA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 6:35 pm Post subject: Re: Battery Draining While Driving - SOLVED |
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WooHoo! The suspense was killing me. 
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