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71 air suspension build
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Joshooalane
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 4:47 pm    Post subject: 71 air suspension build Reply with quote

So I'm halfway done with my air suspension on my 71 super beetle. I just have to fit some bags to my front struts but that will come later this month. Everyone uses the Gabriel hijackers for the rear but they have 0 lift. I like that they can go to 200psi but the ride is subpar and without lift they're pretty useless to me.

I'm currently dropped 3 inner splines, bump stops cut and I ground away a small portion of the metal stop above the spring plates for additional clearance.

Now originally I was running the Monroe MA785s. They go to 150psi, and they gave me the lift I wanted and the right was great even as low as I am. The issue is those damn find on either side of the bottom shock mount rubbed one of my shocks and because the monroes have exposed rubber bags it went out rather quickly.

I want to order a new pair of the monroes because I'd rather have a nice ride and be able to go up 2 inches when need be.

My question is will grinding down that fin degrade the structural integrity of the lower shock mount? I would take it apart and take some pictures however I've had it apart everyday for the last 3 weeks and I'm post shoulder surgery and I really need a day of rest haha. Let me know what you guys think.

Here are some other pictures for your viewing pleasure
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Last edited by Joshooalane on Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:35 am; edited 1 time in total
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VERTED71
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 7:54 am    Post subject: Re: Put air suspension in the rear, but want to grind a little away Reply with quote

[quote="Joshooalane"]So I'm halfway done with my air suspension on my 71 super beetle. I just have to fit some bags to my front struts but that will come later this month. Everyone uses the Gabriel hijackers for the rear but they have 0 lift. I like that they can go to 200psi but the ride is subpar and without lift they're pretty useless to me.

I'm currently dropped 3 inner splines, bump stops cut and I ground away a small portion of the metal stop above the spring plates for additional clearance.

Now originally I was running the Monroe MA785s. They go to 150psi, and they gave me the lift I wanted and the right was great even as low as I am. The issue is those damn find on either side of the bottom shock mount rubbed one of my shocks and because the monroes have exposed rubber bags it went out rather quickly.

I want to order a new pair of the monroes because I'd rather have a nice ride and be able to go up 2 inches when need be.

My question is will grinding down that fin degrade the structural integrity of the lower shock mount? I would take it apart and take some pictures however I've had it apart everyday for the last 3 weeks and I'm post shoulder surgery and I really need a day of rest haha. Let me know what you guys think.

following this thread. I too have a 71 with topline MAXX strut kit. Love the look of mine but always interested in air bags. what are you using for the rear bag/shocks? you can raise and lower the rear two inches? more info and pics of your set up please. Cool
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71 Super Beetle Vert
15x4.5 Front
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Joshooalane
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:40 am    Post subject: Re: Put air suspension in the rear, but want to grind a little away Reply with quote

Vert, it'll probably be a another few weeks until I do the front, but I'll post pics when I do! I was using the Monroe ma785s they gave me right about to inches of lift at 140 psi, which is near max but that was for going into my driveway etc, but the air bag on it is exposed so it was running on the fins. Right now I have the Gabriel hijackers, which If you only drop 2 splines people get about 1.5 inches of lift. At 3 splines the torsion works against them so they don't give me any lift. What do you want to see exactly and I'll take some pics when I get back from a wedding today!
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Joshooalane
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:47 am    Post subject: Re: 71 air suspension build Reply with quote

So I don't think anyone is going to chime in about the grinding away, most people wouldn't want to do it anyways haha. Either way I'll probably just do it and let everyone know how it went and if it turns out to be a horrible idea. By request here are more pictures of my setup
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5gallon steel tank, 9 ports total which IMO is way too many haha.
For the rear I'm running them on the same valves 1/2 valves (too big but I had them) with adapters and a T off to the shocks and the gauge
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Test fit the tank and cut out some board from Home Depot
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Ran the compressor wiring which was stupid expensive, 4g wire from the battery with an inline rise then into a distribution box also with fuses and then two 8g wires to the relays for the compressors
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Wood laminate from lowes glued and cut and test fit
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Compressors and tank mounted on the wood, it's a tight squeeze. I had to remove the tank gauge to make it fit. A fatter shorter tank would've been way better.
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Two inner splines doewn on the rear didn't give me the drop I wanted, but most people find the Gabriel hijackers work decent at this level of drop.
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Went with three splines. The Monroe air shocks gave me lift but rubbed and ruptured. Bought the hijackers, no lift and way bumpier than the monroes but it functions. I'll be grinding the fins down soon and ordering more monroes probably.
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TheAmazingDave
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:04 pm    Post subject: Re: 71 air suspension build Reply with quote

very interested in your progress...

I have air shocks on the rear right now, but only as an emergency measure. My header and muffler drag at my static height after I installed them, coming from an Empi GT exhaust. I needed something to lift the back end up a bit in the meantime, so I installed the Monroes.

They absolutely suck, as far as ride quality. With all the work you're doing, you'd probably be better off with real bags on the rear as well, and do away with the torsions.
http://www.airkewld.com/Classic-VW-Rear-Air-Ride-Kit-1202-p/1202.htm
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Joshooalane
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:30 pm    Post subject: Re: 71 air suspension build Reply with quote

Dave, I want to, however im pretty much doing this with hand tools haha. I can't weld and I also use this as my daily. I think in the future I will but for the time being I haven't seriously considered it.

Which monroes were you using and how far down are you on yours?

I think once I get everything the way I want I'll bite the bullet and get that kit haha.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:46 pm    Post subject: Re: 71 air suspension build Reply with quote

I forget which model Monroes, but they're too long for my application. I can't drive on them aired out or the shocks themselves bottom out pretty hard. 45 PSI minimum with just me in the car or it bangs pretty hard.


Static height/aired out:
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Minimum cruise pressure:
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Maximum suspension travel:
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I'm sorry, I don't have accurate measurements to share. For comparison reasons, I have 185/65 on the rear.
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Joshooalane
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:55 pm    Post subject: Re: 71 air suspension build Reply with quote

So the ma785s that I used technically weren't for beetles, I pressed out the bushings and sleeves and put ones that would work. They had more travel than the ones meant for beetles, and the ride was pretty damn decent.
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VERTED71
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 1:08 am    Post subject: Re: 71 air suspension build Reply with quote

TheAmazingDave wrote:
I forget which model Monroes, but they're too long for my application. I can't drive on them aired out or the shocks themselves bottom out pretty hard. 45 PSI minimum with just me in the car or it bangs pretty hard.


Static height/aired out:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Did you adjust the torsions or just add the air shocks in the pic?

Minimum cruise pressure:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

PSI in the shocks?

Maximum suspension travel:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


How much pressure/PSI is in the shocks?

I'm sorry, I don't have accurate measurements to share. For comparison reasons, I have 185/65 on the rear.


I'm running 165/80/15 on the rear of my 71. Don't want to it slammed, but would like the ability to lower it an inch or two as well as raising it up an inch or two when I have the family riding with me.

My question is can I just add the shocks, or do I need to adjust the torsion one or two splines then add the air shocks and compressor?
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71 Super Beetle Vert
15x4.5 Front
15x6.5 Rear
155/60R15 74T tires FRONT
205/65/15 tires REAR
1600 Dual Port
Progessive Carb
Electronic Ignition
Tri Mil "hotdog" exhaust
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TheAmazingDave
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:50 am    Post subject: Re: 71 air suspension build Reply with quote

The shocks alone have nothing to do with the height. To lower the rear, you must re-index the torsion bars. I did it by eye, I didn't have the angle finder. It took a few tries to get them right because of that. I digress...


Sounds like you have stock size tires which are much taller than mine. Before I put on the 185/65 tires, my stock size tires were tucked up into the well pretty good.

To elaborate on my pics:

Pic 1: static height, no assist from bags on shocks. Would be just kissing the bump stops at this height. However, since my shocks are too long, the shocks bottom before I hit the stops. Not safely derivable more than 20 MPH.

Pic 2: 45 PSI. At this pressure, I can drive normally, the shocks only bottoming on heavy bumps, and only with me in the car. Additional passengers raise my minimum safe air pressure. Minimum 60 PSI with one passenger, full pressure required if anyone in the back seat.

Pic 3: "Full" suspension travel at 120 PSI. No, this doesn't put it at stock height; it's about an inch shy of that. The shocks do not have the power to raise against the torsion bars. The car stops lifting at about 110-115 and I never run max pressure of 150. It actually rides pretty decent at this pressure, and is my general "highway cruise" mode due to the condition of our highways in the Bay Area.

If memory serves me correct, I have the MA803's on rear. As I said before though, the ride mostly sucks because they bottom out and I've been considering taking them off to go back to my KYBs until I install real bags. I should have modified some shorter Monroes like mentioned above, but don't want to buy them twice at this point.
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FullFender
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:59 am    Post subject: Re: 71 air suspension build Reply with quote

Both of you great work so far....this is awesome.
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VERTED71
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:44 am    Post subject: Re: 71 air suspension build Reply with quote

Got it, so the air shocks will just Assist in raising the rear slightly after I re-index the torsion bars.
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71 Super Beetle Vert
15x4.5 Front
15x6.5 Rear
155/60R15 74T tires FRONT
205/65/15 tires REAR
1600 Dual Port
Progessive Carb
Electronic Ignition
Tri Mil "hotdog" exhaust
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TheAmazingDave
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 11:32 am    Post subject: Re: 71 air suspension build Reply with quote

VERTED71 wrote:
Got it, so the air shocks will just Assist in raising the rear slightly after I re-index the torsion bars.


Correct.

To get lower than stock, the torsions require re-indexing or removal. Then air suspension is used to lift the rear to desired height.

You can't eliminate the torsion bars without adequate support; in our case it would be a complete air spring retrofit a la the AirKewld rear air ride kit for IRS.

These shocks are not meant to support the entire vehicle. The only lift they'll provide is to unload the torsion bar. Once the bar is unloaded, the shocks cannot lift past the unloaded torsion bars. Not only are they fighting the weight of the car, but they're also fighting the torsion tension at that point.

I think Standard guys with beams get away with them on the front because the front is so light.
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Joshooalane
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 9:38 am    Post subject: Re: 71 air suspension build Reply with quote

Update,

So finally I got around to working on the front end, this weekend I went ahead did the plumbing for the front bags, took apart my adjustable struts, and installed the airbags. I'm in the office now or I'd post some pictures. The process was fairly easy, I just have a few kinks to work out.

My tires rub against my bags which is no good. I'm waiting on smaller tires to come in and currently looking for some spacers to push them out a bit.
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Joshooalane
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:00 pm    Post subject: Re: 71 air suspension build Reply with quote

Quick update, I ordered 7 inch steelies for the back, they tuck nicely at 3 splines down.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

I did the plumbing the same as the back, except push to connect fittings this time and no leaks the first time around
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Here is the bag installed. I took the bottom spring cup and drilled three holes, two to hold the bag in place, one for the airline, the rest is a mounting plate that holds the shock center and then the stock tooling adjustable strut assembly.
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And here is where you can see I clearly have no room for bags, and I'm paused pending a solution
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RGoose
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:06 am    Post subject: Re: 71 air suspension build Reply with quote

Joshooalane wrote:

And here is where you can see I clearly have no room for bags, and I'm paused pending a solution


How much clearance do you have between the outside of the tire and the inner lip of the fender? If you have any you could look into wheel spacers to gain more clearance between the tire/wheel and air bag.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 1:49 pm    Post subject: Re: 71 air suspension build Reply with quote

Joshooalane wrote:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Time for tires. Shocked
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Joshooalane
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:47 am    Post subject: Re: 71 air suspension build Reply with quote

oldskool wrote:


Time for tires. Shocked


Oh definitely. I already had another set, but I wanted to check the stock tires first haha. Even the smaller 155/60 didnt help.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 4:36 pm    Post subject: Re: 71 air suspension build Reply with quote

update!

I ended up raising the back up one spline, the 7 inch steelies still tuck nicely. Here it is at driving height
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

I added 3/8 inch spacers, 155/60 tires up front, and lowered the bags on the struts. Here's parking height
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And here's driving height

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 1:02 pm    Post subject: Re: 71 air suspension build Reply with quote

Update update update haha
First and foremost I got my wheels powder coated, I went with illusion Malbec and then a matte top coat, it gives them a nice dark purple almost black in the shade and in the sun it lights up to a mix between Coca Cola and burgundy
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Next I decided to give my hood some tlc, wet sanding and some polish, here half for before and after
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And here it is done
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This gave me a bit of an itch and I decided to scratch haha, so I cut out the windows and painted the car. I decided to get the window seals with chrome because hey they look nice.
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Btw I didn't have anyone to help, let me just say getting those bad boys in alone was hard, but not as bad as I thought it would be. I also started adding new lenses, the side molding etc, new antenna, side mirror etc.
Here she is at the end, my brakes are sucking so I'm gonna do that today, maybe tomorrow
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