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Dark Earth
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dustymojave
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Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 5802
Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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 Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:38 pm Post subject: Re: 62 Baja AZ car |
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Ignore the year model listings, Your engine is no longer entirely according to any specific year model or model of car. It's just a plain Type 1 1600 engine. The case is a universal, which could serve for any year model Bug from 1961 to 2003. Or Type 2 from 1961 to 1971. Or Type 3 from 1962 to 1973.
The distributor is a 009.
So...
Set your timing at 30°BTDC - MAX! dynamic. Which will mean a static/idle timing of anywhere from about 0° to about 10°BTDC.
I static time with a 12Volt light with alligator clips attached to the ignition side of the coil (-, same side as the wire to the condenser and points) and ground/ignition switch on, but engine NOT running. Rotate the crank to 0° with the distributor rotor pointing at the little notch in the top edge of the distributor body, and the rockers for cylinder #1 BOTH having slack.
That should get the timing close. Then check the dynamic timing with a timing light. Too much max advance can cause over-heating of a VW engine.
You MAY also have a loose valve or even a loose rocker shaft. Have you adjusted the valves yet? It should be done about every 5K miles on a Bug engine. It COULD BE your knocking noise.
The factory called for .028" gap on all plugs of all VW Bugs.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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Skorzeny's G Ride
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Joined: July 10, 2007
Posts: 291
Location: Gods curse on humanity...The Arizona Desert
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 7:57 pm Post subject: Re: 62 Baja AZ car |
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Wow I just posted and saw the last 2 posts. Thanks guys I erased my post to go over the links and info u guys just mentioned. I did speak with a guy at dons bus box. Said get it to 3k rpm and set it to 28 degrees. Drive and adjust from there. As for the gap thanks I'll do 28 on the Bosch plugs.
I picked up what I needed to get the cooler on and did grab a new one. Guy at the shop told me as well he found gunk in cooler no matter how long he tried to clean them. I did have concerns regarding air vanes or flaps? Would I have use for the I thought someone mentioned wire them open so if im missing them I should be good correct? I will be painting it back to flat black someone painted the house red. I'll read all the new info u guys posted and post with progress. I really appreciate all the tips and info everyone. Thanks. Lost of good reading in those links.
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...70 type 181
...59 Beetle
...62 beetle baja (new) |
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Skorzeny's G Ride
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Joined: July 10, 2007
Posts: 291
Location: Gods curse on humanity...The Arizona Desert
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 10:33 pm Post subject: Re: 62 Baja AZ car |
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Not sure where this set up came from. I thought the foam went outside the air filter. Not inside
Was able to get the dog house cooler on and with no leaks. Kinda of nice and used washers to helps space between the adapter and cooler per a post I read on here. Worked great.
Might opt for a completely different air filter set up
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weasel_ugs
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Joined: March 16, 2012
Posts: 721
Location: Prescott Valley,Az.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 11:21 pm Post subject: Re: 62 Baja AZ car |
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That filter setup helps keep the air filter from getting wet in rain and some puddles, it also came with the foam filter inside the paper filter.
I put one on my car to keep the filter dry in rain and it had the 2 stage filter as well. |
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ach60 
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Joined: May 14, 2001
Posts: 4139
Location: Santa Maria
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:02 pm Post subject: Re: 62 Baja AZ car |
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The deflector tin on the bottom of the cylinders is wrong for a type 1(Bug).
The aftermarket in the 80's called it cool tin, but it's just wrong.
Like most Baja Bugs your cooling system is backyard engineering your motor to death.
All of the stock cooling tin needs to be installed.
The idea is to keep the motor from recycling hot air back into the motor.
The front tin(Front is front of car) and the sled tins insure that your fan does not suck hot air back into the motor.
The sled tin forces the hot air out of the back of the motor(Back is the rear of the car).
The little (cad plated in the photo) defectors is what you should have on your motor.
The Shroud shown in the photo is a "36 HP" Style Shroud has no provision for cooling flaps.
In hot climates VW can run without cooling Flaps, and thermostat.
You don't have them.
But this it what the system looks like
When you pulled the shroud off I hope your cylinders where nice and clean like these.
If not you have to clean it all so it will cool.
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Dark Earth
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Joined: December 22, 2015
Posts: 1054
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 2:13 pm Post subject: Re: 62 Baja AZ car |
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Aren't these cooling tins the best ?
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weasel_ugs
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Joined: March 16, 2012
Posts: 721
Location: Prescott Valley,Az.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 6:24 pm Post subject: Re: 62 Baja AZ car |
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| Dark Earth wrote: |
Aren't these cooling tins the best ?
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I have been using these tins on my 1915cc since 1987 in Az. Most of the time as a daily driver in Phoenix where the temps reach 110 on a daily basis in the summer. My engine is still alive so how are these bad? |
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dustymojave
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Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 5802
Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 12:38 am Post subject: Re: 62 Baja AZ car |
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| weasel_ugs wrote: |
| Dark Earth wrote: |
Aren't these cooling tins the best ?
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I have been using these tins on my 1915cc since 1987 in Az. Most of the time as a daily driver in Phoenix where the temps reach 110 on a daily basis in the summer. My engine is still alive so how are these bad? |
I've been using those "Super Tins" on my engines since 1974 when I started using them at my father's suggestion. Dad was a Field Service Engineer for VW USA in the late 60s - early 70s and worked on testing those under cylinder tins. They had several cars, some equipped with them and some with the standard flat Type 1 pieces. They installed temperature sensors in carefully engineered locations. Then they ran the cars up a long highway grade in the Mojave Desert between LA and Las Vegas during hot summer weather well up in triple digits. They found that the cars with the Super Tins ran substantially cooler. This testing program included testing Dog House coolers and shrouds also.
VW installed the Super Tins on US delivery Type 3s as they were having more warranty trouble from overheated engines. IIRC, dad said they tested them on T1s also.
The point of the Super Tins is better overall cooling than the square flat deflectors. They especially are good at reducing hot spots in the cylinders with much more even cooling. While the flat square air deflectors cause the air flow coming down between the cylinders to spread some and cool the bottom of the cylinder fins some, the air passing down over the outer sides of the cylinders just goes straight down and out. The Super Tins force the air on all sides of the cylinders to really wrap around the whole cylinder and cool all of the fins before passing out the square opening in the bottom center of the tin.
Super tins are not "NECESSARY". But they DO improve cooling. VW didn't put them on Bugs because the Super Tins cost more money to manufacture than the simple flat square. When you multiply a few dollars per car X half a million cars per year, you find that installing them on Bugs would cost VW a few million dollars per year. A few more fried engines per year under warranty doesn't come close to that much cost. So it made sound business sense to stick with the old school flat square deflectors for Bugs, even though the Super Tins work better.
I have used them on the street for up to nearly 400,000 miles (and it wasn't the cylinders that failed then, it was the oil pump gear coming loose on the shaft) and won a Championship in my Hi Jumper race buggy using them. I recommend using them.
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Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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oldschool5er
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Joined: May 28, 2007
Posts: 804
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 1:45 pm Post subject: Re: 62 Baja AZ car |
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I completely agree with Richard. My experiance with them is the same result. After all we are talking about the same block with airflow going downward through the cylinders even though the T3 duct is different. VW kept them in use to the end of production.
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Full machine shop with all types of CNC. Rapid prototyping available, CNC Plasma cutting, 3D printing and Laser engraving. |
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Skorzeny's G Ride
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Joined: July 10, 2007
Posts: 291
Location: Gods curse on humanity...The Arizona Desert
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:30 pm Post subject: Re: 62 Baja AZ car |
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Im gonna have to pick some of those up. Fins were clean just old looking. Im actually having an issue with it pinging again. Changed plugs and did timing again but now a little after start up sounds like it pinging. Not sure if rotella 15-40 diesel was a good choice. I read on some topic to try it. Seems like every time I go one step forward on this thing it takes me 2 back. Kind of stumped. Read to pull the engine from my VW thing to throw in here. I drove that dam thing with reduction boxes for 100 miles up hill with no problem overheating. Never had a baja. Plus a lot of things on this one was Mickey moused.
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...70 type 181
...59 Beetle
...62 beetle baja (new) |
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bikesndbugs
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Joined: January 06, 2015
Posts: 218
Location: san diego
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:58 pm Post subject: Re: 62 Baja AZ car |
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| dustymojave wrote: |
An oil cooler upright or doghouse on the top of the case, or an external cooler fed from the stock oil cooler ports on the top of the case only flows about 1/3 of the total engine oil flow. That's why a system plumbed out of the pump and back into the end of the oil galley is called "full flow".
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so with an upright cooler stock you still only get 1/3 of the engine flow so would it be better than an external cooler in the stock place and then i can plumb in a filter too.
Theres also the dual filter type that uses stock type and external on the stock ports are those any good? |
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Skorzeny's G Ride
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Joined: July 10, 2007
Posts: 291
Location: Gods curse on humanity...The Arizona Desert
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:59 pm Post subject: Re: 62 Baja AZ car |
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Thought I should add. After running and warming up the pinging starts. I can put my hand on the valve cover just fine for cylinder 3-4. Warm but doable. When I put my hand on valve cover 1-2 it's extrmelty hot and cannot keep my hand on it for more than a second or two. Almost like an iron. Could it be the valve clearance? I'll admit I haven't done it yet. Also sounds like the noise could be coming from 1-2 area. I read rob and Dave online and it states to do the valves cold. Canceling my trip tomorrow to complete it. Now the motor won't even turn over. After I let it rest it does but kind of drags.
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...59 Beetle
...62 beetle baja (new) |
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Skorzeny's G Ride
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Joined: July 10, 2007
Posts: 291
Location: Gods curse on humanity...The Arizona Desert
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:02 pm Post subject: Re: 62 Baja AZ car |
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| bikesndbugs wrote: |
| dustymojave wrote: |
An oil cooler upright or doghouse on the top of the case, or an external cooler fed from the stock oil cooler ports on the top of the case only flows about 1/3 of the total engine oil flow. That's why a system plumbed out of the pump and back into the end of the oil galley is called "full flow".
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so with an upright cooler stock you still only get 1/3 of the engine flow so would it be better than an external cooler in the stock place and then i can plumb in a filter too.
Theres also the dual filter type that uses stock type and external on the stock ports are those any good? |
I had the remote oil filter and cooler but they told me the dog house cooler would be more efficient especially here in the desert. Not sure about oil flow but fro,cwhat all the people I talk to they all tell me full flow is the way to go. More oil and better cooling.
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...59 Beetle
...62 beetle baja (new) |
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Dark Earth
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Joined: December 22, 2015
Posts: 1054
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| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:22 am Post subject: Re: 62 Baja AZ car |
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| Skorzeny's G Ride wrote: |
| Im gonna have to pick some of those up. Fins were clean just old looking. Im actually having an issue with it pinging again. Changed plugs and did timing again but now a little after start up sounds like it pinging. Not sure if rotella 15-40 diesel was a good choice. I read on some topic to try it. Seems like every time I go one step forward on this thing it takes me 2 back. Kind of stumped. Read to pull the engine from my VW thing to throw in here. I drove that dam thing with reduction boxes for 100 miles up hill with no problem overheating. Never had a baja. Plus a lot of things on this one was Mickey moused. |
It looks like you already have the good cooling tins wired around the cylinders. I'm not sure why they have to be wired on though.
If it's pinging back the timing off. You might have too much advance.
| Skorzeny's G Ride wrote: |
| Thought I should add. After running and warming up the pinging starts. I can put my hand on the valve cover just fine for cylinder 3-4. Warm but doable. When I put my hand on valve cover 1-2 it's extrmelty hot and cannot keep my hand on it for more than a second or two. Almost like an iron. Could it be the valve clearance? I'll admit I haven't done it yet. Also sounds like the noise could be coming from 1-2 area. I read rob and Dave online and it states to do the valves cold. Canceling my trip tomorrow to complete it. Now the motor won't even turn over. After I let it rest it does but kind of drags. |
You definitely want to adjust the valves cold.
Also ...
Running a carburetor too lean will cause an engine to run hot.
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Last edited by Dark Earth on Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:26 am; edited 1 time in total |
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dustymojave
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Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 5802
Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:10 pm Post subject: Re: 62 Baja AZ car |
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I head hot, pinging when warmed up, sounds like the right side air flow is blocked.
- Are the thermostat flaps on the bottom of the fan shroud open on both sides?
- Are there leaves or other debris on the cooling fins?
- dragging when trying to re-start hot sounds like the cylinders are hot as well as the head.
It all sounds like the right side is not getting air to the head and cylinders.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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Skorzeny's G Ride
Samba Member
Joined: July 10, 2007
Posts: 291
Location: Gods curse on humanity...The Arizona Desert
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| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 5:16 pm Post subject: Re: 62 Baja AZ car |
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| dustymojave wrote: |
I head hot, pinging when warmed up, sounds like the right side air flow is blocked.
- Are the thermostat flaps on the bottom of the fan shroud open on both sides?
- Are there leaves or other debris on the cooling fins?
- dragging when trying to re-start hot sounds like the cylinders are hot as well as the head.
It all sounds like the right side is not getting air to the head and cylinders. |
Everything is clear on cooling fins and no flaps. Completely open. This is what the shroud looked like before I put it back to flat black. Strange that just the 1-2 side is that hot.
Dark earth thanks I'll get on the adjustments for valve and carb asap. Wish I kept the plugs they looked pretty bad and it could possibly be running lean. I forgot about thst. I'll look up what a 34 should be set at. I did review keep volks wagen alive and skimmed the pages. From what I can tell I need to just identity if the studs are leg or short and that will determine the guage i need to set the valves at. If I need to look further into that so,eome please let me know. For this block we could only tell it was a universal. Tnx everyone I can't wait to get it going 100% again. Been putting off scouting in it for fishing and hunting. Kind of buming me out.
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...59 Beetle
...62 beetle baja (new) |
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Dark Earth
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Joined: December 22, 2015
Posts: 1054
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| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 5:30 pm Post subject: Re: 62 Baja AZ car |
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| Skorzeny's G Ride wrote: |
| I did review keep volks wagen alive and skimmed the pages. From what I can tell I need to just identity if the studs are leg or short and that will determine the guage i need to set the valves at. If I need to look further into that so,eome please let me know. For this block we could only tell it was a universal. Tnx everyone I can't wait to get it going 100% again. Been putting off scouting in it for fishing and hunting. Kind of buming me out. |
According to my trusty "Bentley Official Service Manual 1966 through 1969", the valve lash is .006" for both the intake and exhaust valves. I'm pretty sure that's standard for most engines.
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peterd3060
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Joined: February 14, 2010
Posts: 114
Location: willcox az
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 5:07 am Post subject: Re: 62 Baja AZ car |
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| any body ask what fuel 87 or 92 ??, i live in southern az and mine pings like hell on 87 at 32* timing , aircooled motors in az love higher octane and makes engine run alot cooler , i run super unleaded 92 octane with 36* and getting oil temps of about 180 to 190 in 3rd or 4th crusing on the desert floor between 4000 and 6000 alt , ditch that oil cooler or put a fan on it , the dog house cooler will be way more effective , i had a set up exactly like yours on my first baja and it was running 220 and higher temps on the oil , and switched it back to the OG oil cooler and it made dramatic difference |
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peterd3060
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Joined: February 14, 2010
Posts: 114
Location: willcox az
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 5:15 am Post subject: Re: 62 Baja AZ car |
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seeing sticker on your aircleaner are you from or near safford az?? i live on the other side of the hill  pm me and ill get you my number i have a ton of parts and tips on making a vw survive the az desert and haul the mail  |
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