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Starter Button Wiring Problem...Help!!
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vamram Premium Member
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Starter Button Wiring Problem...Help!! Reply with quote

Yep, that's the plan. I use Master Series Silver to treat rusty metal instead of POR 15 and have had good results after 4 years. I already replaced the battery tray on this bug!
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'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:20 am    Post subject: Re: Starter Button Wiring Problem...Help!! Reply with quote

This Super just keeps on giving. d'oh!

Found this while removing the old factory sound proofing from the driver side floor pan:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

It looks like one of the POners cut the wiring harness run then soldered the wires back together and insulated them w/electrical tape. You can see that one of them is bare at the solder point.

Recommendations on cleaning of this mess? New tape? Cut, insert heat shrink wrap, and resolder...? etc?
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'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
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rockerarm
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 7:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Starter Button Wiring Problem...Help!! Reply with quote

Ah haa. And the show keeps a rolling! Just kidding. Good find, Victor.
What I would do is to use your wiring diagram and identify every wire there, where its source is and where it terminates. Then with a DVOM on the 12v dc circuit check for any voltage drop on every circuit there. At least then with this knowledge you will know if any potential problems exist now or possible later down the road.
For example, someone has told you a tail lite is occasionally out or flickres, but every time you check it works. With the DVOM, dc volt scale, positive on fuse (at fuse box) and negative on back of bulb. DVOM says 0.2v drop. Not bad. But you begin to wiggle that connector and the DVOM starts changing volt readings. This would indicate a connection problem there.
Hope this helps, Bill
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Starter Button Wiring Problem...Help!! Reply with quote

Bill, let's say everything traces per the wiring diagram. What then? Leave these as is or redo those splices in some other way?
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'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
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rockerarm
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 9:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Starter Button Wiring Problem...Help!! Reply with quote

Hi. I probably would look and see. My concern is if there is some nice shrink fit tubing it gets cut away. Maybe some more experienced wiring guru's have idea on that covering. But, I would make sure the wires are soldered. It is a relatively inexpensive repair to solder it all up.
Bill
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Tim Donahoe
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:28 am    Post subject: Re: Starter Button Wiring Problem...Help!! Reply with quote

Since you're there already, I'd open those wires up to see how well they connect. You can paint them with liquid electrical tape, then when dry, re-wrap with actual electrical tape. It would be tedious, but that PO did things a little wonky. It might be worth the trouble.

Tim
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TX-73
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Starter Button Wiring Problem...Help!! Reply with quote

If I were in that spot I would solder each wire and use shrink wrap. I typically use a barrel connector to first crimp the wires together then solder that connection.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Starter Button Wiring Problem...Help!! Reply with quote

TX-73 wrote:
If I were in that spot I would solder each wire and use shrink wrap. I typically use a barrel connector to first crimp the wires together then solder that connection.


I like that idea of the barrel connector. Why the extra step of soldering this? Strength? Better contact/less resistance?
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'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
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ps2375
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 7:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Starter Button Wiring Problem...Help!! Reply with quote

I would think to reduce the possibility of corrosion and for longevity. Will make for a bulky section, though. At least its hidden, normally.
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TX-73
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:07 am    Post subject: Re: Starter Button Wiring Problem...Help!! Reply with quote

I solder everything, I don't like crimp connectors used on their own. Plus I think the conductivity is better since current passes through the entire soldered connection not just the smaller crimped area.
Yes, I know people use the crimped versions, but this is what I would do. I use the barrel connector as initial mechanical connection to hold things until I solder it. Just personal methodology.
A properly sized barrel connector adds very little bulk to the connection.
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Cusser
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:18 am    Post subject: Re: Starter Button Wiring Problem...Help!! Reply with quote

I also would solder.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 8:22 am    Post subject: Re: Starter Button Wiring Problem...Help!! Reply with quote

Problem is most folks will not choose to or do not know to get the $50 to $150 ratchet crimper and proper crimps like used at the factory that make a gas tight seal between the crimp and both wires. Instead they get a glorified pair of plier crimper tool that never seal the connection.

If no oxygen can get in, then no corrosion can get occur in the connections between those the parts. Even then it would not be bad to solder which again seals out corrosion just like the VW factory battery cables. This is not an area you want to have to pull apart every five or so years to clean out corrosion...

Only other problem is it would have been nice if the DPO had staggered at least half of the connections so the loom there would not be such a swollen mass of repairs in a single spot. Hopefully it will not cause shorts down the road as is.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:24 am    Post subject: Re: Starter Button Wiring Problem...Help!! Reply with quote

Eric&Barb wrote:
Problem is most folks will not choose to or do not know to get the $50 to $150 ratchet crimper and proper crimps like used at the factory that make a gas tight seal between the crimp and both wires....


I actually have a ratchet crimper, just no barrel connectors that specifically work w/it. I guess I can order those, but the crimper is very bulky and I don't think I can use it in the space where the wires are exposed. I suppose I could disconnect the ends of the wires and pull them in to that point, but I won't be able to do that w/ones that run back to the engine compartment.
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'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:43 am    Post subject: Re: Starter Button Wiring Problem...Help!! Reply with quote

vamram wrote:

I actually have a ratchet crimper, just no barrel connectors that specifically work w/it. I guess I can order those, but the crimper is very bulky and I don't think I can use it in the space where the wires are exposed.


Then just go with soldering if need be.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:44 am    Post subject: Re: Starter Button Wiring Problem...Help!! Reply with quote

WOW if they are already soldered together just tape them up individually and move on. don't make mountains out if molehills.
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I've restored a large number too, but I don't toot my horn quite as loud.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:15 am    Post subject: Re: Starter Button Wiring Problem...Help!! Reply with quote

60ragtop wrote:
WOW if they are already soldered together just tape them up individually and move on. don't make mountains out if molehills.


Seen plenty of bad soldering resulting in cold joints that will not do well over time. Would take a little bit of time, but worth it to check say five of them, to see if even one is sub par. If one is, then go thru the rest to get a good solder joint on each.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:25 am    Post subject: Re: Starter Button Wiring Problem...Help!! Reply with quote

Eric&Barb wrote:
60ragtop wrote:
WOW if they are already soldered together just tape them up individually and move on. don't make mountains out if molehills.


Seen plenty of bad soldering resulting in cold joints that will not do well over time. Would take a little bit of time, but worth it to check say five of them, to see if even one is sub par. If one is, then go thru the rest to get a good solder joint on each.


I would love to "move on" as getting this car in order has been more than I estimated (shocking, right!?!). I like TX's recommendation to clean them up w/ nice barrel connectors, solder and shrink wrap, but if that's just extra work for connections that *may* be good as they are, I'm open to confirming that first and moving on.

E&B - what's the correct way to test the quality of the soldering?
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Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!

'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:34 am    Post subject: Re: Starter Button Wiring Problem...Help!! Reply with quote

look them over, give the tug test, check with a volt meter. retape move on.
This car wrenching is not as hard some make it out to be Laughing
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tasb wrote:
I've restored a large number too, but I don't toot my horn quite as loud.


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maybe he just snapped cause his car sucked Wink
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 12:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Starter Button Wiring Problem...Help!! Reply with quote

Main thing you are looking for is solder flow and not globbed up in drips. When wires are clean enough and soldering iron used is hot enough the solder should be more of a thin coating over the wires.

Plus look for any sharp points soldered wire can form. Any sharp point will cut through plastic tape/heat shrink and cause shorts.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Starter Button Wiring Problem...Help!! Reply with quote

Here's what the wires look like under the tape. They were cut and *most* of them then soldered back together.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

I'm confused by the thin one to the left - going towards the front of the car it's blue, but it's attached to green/red stripe one going to the back. And it's not soldered, just twisted together.

Very confusing because per the diagram, the engine-end of the green/red stripe wire goes to the oil pressure switch. The other end is supposed to connect to the dual circuit brake warning/seat belt interlock warning system, but solid blue goes to the alternator charging warning light in the dash..and there's a 2nd lighter blue wire I can't identify on the right side of the bundle...although there's a 2nd solid blue in the diagram that's tied to K5 the "turn signal warning light..." . There's not much slack to work w/on these wires. And most of them are really stiff for the 1/4" - 1/2" on either side of the solder, not flexible at all.

What a Cluster F*&#! Confused
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Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!

'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!!
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