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jacopotex
Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2015
Posts: 76
Location: gorizia italy
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 Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 1:23 pm Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
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| cdennisg wrote: |
| I have never heard of that kit. but it does appear to cause clearance issues with the upper shock cover. You may need to relocate the upper shock mount and/or remove that upper cover. |
bought from here:
http://www.harryharpics.com/ |
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cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20271
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 1:30 pm Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
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| jacopotex wrote: |
| cdennisg wrote: |
| I have never heard of that kit. but it does appear to cause clearance issues with the upper shock cover. You may need to relocate the upper shock mount and/or remove that upper cover. |
bought from here:
http://www.harryharpics.com/ |
You should contact them with questions about the kit. They will likely have better answers than us.
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jacopotex
Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2015
Posts: 76
Location: gorizia italy
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:33 pm Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
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| cdennisg wrote: |
| jacopotex wrote: |
| cdennisg wrote: |
| I have never heard of that kit. but it does appear to cause clearance issues with the upper shock cover. You may need to relocate the upper shock mount and/or remove that upper cover. |
bought from here:
http://www.harryharpics.com/ |
You should contact them with questions about the kit. They will likely have better answers than us. |
Yes Harry told me today that i need to relocade the top mount |
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LarsH
Samba Member
Joined: December 06, 2015
Posts: 12
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:15 am Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
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German engineering
Link
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dawerks
Samba Member
Joined: September 15, 2010
Posts: 2349
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| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:47 am Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
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How do you fix excessive (1") rear toe in?
I can settle for a fair amount of toe in but that's too much, the bus is more solid driving down the road but the tire wear is going to be killer.
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Erik G
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13270
Location: Tejas!
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| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:09 am Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
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slot the spring plate axle holes.
what springplates are you using? Most of the good ones don't have this issue, it's usually the home made ones
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motofly196
Samba Member
Joined: June 01, 2008
Posts: 1467
Location: Eastern WA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:44 am Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
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| 1" of toe in?? Something is horribly wrong. Slotting the spring plate holes is not going to correct 1"....you will just be covering up a problem. I'd recheck everything and make sure your spring plates/ torsion rods are completely seated. Has the vehicle just been lowered to the ground before checking? Or have you driven it or rolled it back and forth and bounced it up and down...and then checked toe? |
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Krustybus
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2004
Posts: 442
Location: SE Michigan
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| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:22 pm Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
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If you've swapped nose cones, new trans mounts, etc, be sure the trans is as far forward as you can get it. That will affect your toe in.
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motofly196
Samba Member
Joined: June 01, 2008
Posts: 1467
Location: Eastern WA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:03 pm Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
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| If you have Wagenswest plates, they are preslotted. I reread the comment from this morning, and now I'm thinking, maybe not all plates are slotted? When I did the 4 wheel alignment on my lowered Single Cab, the toe was best with the axles slid all the way to the rear. That will vary from vehicle to vehicle. But even with them all the way forward, I think I had 1/4"+ toe |
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Hemlock
Samba Member
Joined: August 31, 2006
Posts: 35
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:38 pm Post subject: Bearing carriers |
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So, I've been reading a lot here, and am in the process of straight axle converting my '64 Kombi. Do I have bearing carriers here I can use? I have three sets: 1. from the reduction boxes, pretty sure those aren't what I want. 2. from the brakes I picked up from a late model bug. 3. I bought along with the long axles and tubes I picked up from the classifieds.
2 and 3 are in the pics. Can I use either of these?
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GLHTurbo
Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2009
Posts: 1376
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:55 pm Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
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If you indeed have 68 Long Axles, you need
311-501-311A - Superceded to 113-501-311A
Weddle sells new OEM VW Brazil/Mexico:
https://weddleindustries.com/product/1001556
You'll need the big washer that goes between the cover and the seal as well, most seal kits don't seem to have them.
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1957 Beetle
1966 Bus |
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cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20271
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:00 pm Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
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From a couple of years back in this thread. Lots of stuff here to dig through.
| electronictofu wrote: |
| Split 66' wrote: |
I used the instructions from Bus Boys, they say to use bearing covers from a 61-66 Bug:
http://www.bus-boys.com/instruct-swing-pg1.htm
These don't have the A in the part number that the T3's do.
When I bought my backing plates and drums, I received the T3 '68 bearing caps with them, the caps did not work, to shallow IIRC. I had to use the bug ones, above.
Bus Boys may have some 61-66 bug caps for sale. |
Awesome. I'll look for the style with the step and no "A" in the part. To verify, this is type 3 breaks, and type 1 68' long axles? So many mixed parts  Want to make sure it's good... |
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Hemlock
Samba Member
Joined: August 31, 2006
Posts: 35
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| Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 6:50 am Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
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| I've actually read the whole thread, think I may have hit saturation/overload. Thanks all, I'll order a set. |
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cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20271
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:56 am Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
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| Hemlock wrote: |
| I've actually read the whole thread, think I may have hit saturation/overload. Thanks all, I'll order a set. |
Yes, there is almost too much info to be able to understand in here. But, I did a quick search and was able to find the post I quoted for you. It doesn't always work, but it's worth a try.
Glad we could help you find what you need. Make sure to show us your project when you get it rollin'.
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cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20271
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:01 am Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
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An amazing post full of good info from another thread...
| VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
| nshaddox wrote: |
seems like if the bearing offset is different then there would be some other spacer or axle dimension that was also different between the short/long spline rear axles?
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Nope..
Its only a 3mm difference.. (67 to 68 ) of bearing placement.. which is taken up in the side gears and fulcrum plates.
The distance from the fulcrum paddle to the inner spacer radius remained the same.. short/long/longer.
The true measurable differences in swing axle lengths are from the inner spacer radius outward..
Here..
| VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
| RareAir wrote: |
| ALL the axle tubes are the same length. It's the end casting which makes the difference. 1966-earlier cars used short axles. 1967-68 cars used long axles. Either way, the actual axle tube is the same size. The end casting was lengthened on the 1967-68 cars to compensate for the additional length of the axle. |
| VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
In addition.. for USA spec Beetles.
When comparing 1966 vs 1967
1967 swingaxles have approx 25mm (1 inch) longer axle shafts and tubes (per side). (long axle short spline)
Increases rear track width by approx 2 inches when used as a complete transaxle.
This information applies to 1968 swing axles as well.
1968 axle shafts are slightly longer than the 67's (long axle long spline) at the spline end to take advantage of the longer spline 4 lug drums.
The 1968 tubes are the same length as 67's but use different outer bearing offsets.
It is important to keep bearing caps with their respective tubes no matter the year.
Short axles (pre 67) and tubes can be installed on 1967 and 1968 transaxle cases. |
| VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
Beetle tunnel case transaxle.
Short axle/short spline - '61-'66 T1
Long axle /short spline - '67 T1
Longer axle/longer spline - '68 up T1
and to repeat from above
For US Spec Beetles.
Up through 1966 used short tubes short axles with short splines
1967 used long tubes long axles with short splines
1968 and some 69 used long tubes long axles with long splines for the longer spline 4 lug drums.
Just FYI , for countries still utilizing swing axles after 1968, used long tube long spline axles. |
| fluxcap wrote: |
Sorry man, don't have any short axles to measure, but found this pic from another thread with a yard stick in it to give you an idea until somebody can get exact measurements.
66 and earlier short axles on left
67 long axle/short spline in the middle
68 long axle/long spline on the right
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| VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
Yep... look at the end casting..
Its either wider than the average hand width..... or not..
Short Left... Long Right..
Long top Short Bottom
Now telling the difference between a 67 long tube or 68 long tube .. thats additional advice...
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| VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
Just keep in mind and be sure to keep the bearing caps separated as even though the 67 and 68 tubes are the same length, the bearing placement is different.
I am currently using a transaxle with 2- 67 axles, a left 67 Beetle tube and a right 68 Type 3 tube (welded Z bar guide).
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cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20271
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:08 am Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
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This should probably go here, too.
| VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
| EVfun wrote: |
| If your axle tubes are 1968 then you need 1968 bearing caps. If you use 1967 axle tubes then you could use any 1958-1967 caps. How much of the bearing was in the cap vs in the tube changed so mixing parts results in the extra space in the bearing outer race or not enough space. |
^ yep..
To make an additional note.. for reference..
58-64 bearing caps use an exposed axle seal WITH the often lost and tossed drum slinger.
65-67 caps use the shrouded seal cap with an internal slinger and the weep hole in the backing plate to match the weep hole in the cap.
Both can be interchanged as EV indicated..
68 up caps LOOK similar to the 65-67 caps but measure out and are spec'd differently. (see pics above)
| VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
1965 (ish) VW changed from the "drum slinger" to the backing plate "weep hole" with internal slinger.. .
The change was developed to deter the brake shoes from oil soaking in the event of an axle seal failure..
Note below.. "shrouded" bearing cap vs open bearing cap..
| VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
Here.. you can see the different parts..
| VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
"oil deflector"
or convert to the 65-67 style internal deflector and shrouded bearing cap and drill the weep hole in the backing plate.
IMO... 65-67 is a better design and option.
| glutamodo wrote: |
and yes, if you drill a hole in the backing plate, you can use the 65 style rear bearing cap.
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Also
58-64 use straight slot adjusters
65 up use angled slot adjusters
The shoes must match the slot style..
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| VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
| glutamodo wrote: |
The 65-67 are actually almost the same as the 58-64, they just use an angled adjuster. If you change the adjusters, you can use the later shoes. And you can put the early adjusters on a 65-67 and use the early shoes. (I've done this on my 66-pan Baja)
The early ones are straight, the late ones are angled:
And here's the brake shoe chart:
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Hemlock
Samba Member
Joined: August 31, 2006
Posts: 35
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:11 pm Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
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Thanks for pulling that stuff together!
I'm heading for a swap meet tomorrow, hope to find the caps there. I ordered axle seal kits, I'll have to check those pics to see if they have everything else I'll need.
When it's back on the ground and dropped, I'll put some pics up. I haven't addressed the front yet, but that seems a bit more straightforward. At least I hope and think so! |
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62DoKaGuy
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2011
Posts: 1276
Location: Surprise, AZ
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:29 am Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
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Anyone know anything about this air suspension kit or have installed it?
http://www.x2industries.com/volkswagen-1955-1969-v...JN5Y_krKUk
Pros and cons, if you could help. Looking up "X2" in the search literally racked my brain from all the uses as "ditto" haha. Cheers.
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| EverettB wrote: |
| ...I went at it from both ends but going from the rear didn't seem to do anything, although I did spray some rust breaker in there... |
4/62 Double Cab
5/61 Panel (sold)
4/59 Single Cab (sold) |
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mandraks
Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2004
Posts: 7047
Location: Lawrenceville, Ga
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:52 pm Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
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looks like it is cheaper than this kit
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1901740
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'53 3-Fold Oval, L35 Metallic Blue, looking for a narrow hatch panel |
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cru62
Samba Member
Joined: December 31, 2002
Posts: 4117
Location: Margaritaville.....24/7
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:59 pm Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
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Except the one you link is a hydraulic lowering kit. And it functions in a completely different way. The one the OP linked to is basically adjustable air shocks.
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