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nitrogen or co2 air ride?
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jacksonp32
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 11:43 am    Post subject: nitrogen or co2 air ride? Reply with quote

anyone do this? i'm thinking a very cheap alternative to air ride could be using a co2 or nitrogen bottle, connected to a dual head air filler, and T it off to air shocks on the front. it appears that it would be very cheap, and have the ability to raise and lower the car pretty quickly. anyone?
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slalombuggy
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:29 pm    Post subject: Re: nitrogen or co2 air ride? Reply with quote

1 - Have you priced out tanks and fills - not cheap, at least where I am
2 - Your car will have to carry a placard for having a compressed gas cylinder on board like the ones you see on trucks transporting them.
3 - You can't carry compressed gas cylinders in an enclosed area and especially not in the passenger compartment.
4 - Not many place fill or replace cylinders on weekends.

brad
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Snowbro
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:41 pm    Post subject: Re: nitrogen or co2 air ride? Reply with quote

air is free.... why would you buy some other gas that will do the same thing. air actually has nitrogen and co2 in it, there you go! Laughing
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Sharp64 Premium Member
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 5:53 pm    Post subject: Re: nitrogen or co2 air ride? Reply with quote

Are you thinking something like a scuba tank or large paintball (HPA) tank? I would be curious about how much air it would take. The good thing with these tanks is you can fill them up to 3k or 4500 psi. Lot more bang for the buck than CO2.
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slalombuggy
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:17 pm    Post subject: Re: nitrogen or co2 air ride? Reply with quote

Sharp64 wrote:
Are you thinking something like a scuba tank or large paintball (HPA) tank? I would be curious about how much air it would take. The good thing with these tanks is you can fill them up to 3k or 4500 psi. Lot more bang for the buck than CO2.


But then you would need a compressor that could produce 3-4500psi. We have one at work to fill dry air bottles. You could buy a nicely restored Split for the cost of the compressor.

brad
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jacksonp32
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:57 pm    Post subject: Re: nitrogen or co2 air ride? Reply with quote

not sure what you're talking about saying they're expensive.plus a refill for like 5$ every few months isn't bad. i think this is an extremely cheap alternative, and work as well if not better than some air setups. using a tank of say co2, directly connected to a regulator or something you can add or get rid of co2, and the lines going to the shocks. simple and cheap. tanks can be bought and refilled at target for nothing. i don't see many downfalls but haven't seen many people do it
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Sharp64 Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:51 am    Post subject: Re: nitrogen or co2 air ride? Reply with quote

slalombuggy wrote:
Sharp64 wrote:
Are you thinking something like a scuba tank or large paintball (HPA) tank? I would be curious about how much air it would take. The good thing with these tanks is you can fill them up to 3k or 4500 psi. Lot more bang for the buck than CO2.


But then you would need a compressor that could produce 3-4500psi. We have one at work to fill dry air bottles. You could buy a nicely restored Split for the cost of the compressor.

brad


Any scuba place will refill for $3-5. There is also a pump produced that will fill at home, but it's rather slow. Takes a couple of hours. Depending on the tank size a paintball store will refill it as well.

http://www.shoeboxcompressor.com

My main concern would be how long a tank would last.
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jacksonp32
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 8:05 am    Post subject: Re: nitrogen or co2 air ride? Reply with quote

also there would be no need for a compressor would there? that's why it would be such a cheap alternative. compressed co2 can have airlines to airshocks with a air filler/releaser switch between for manual raise lower
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Sharp64 Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 8:21 am    Post subject: Re: nitrogen or co2 air ride? Reply with quote

jacksonp32 wrote:
also there would be no need for a compressor would there? that's why it would be such a cheap alternative. compressed co2 can have airlines to airshocks with a air filler/releaser switch between for manual raise lower


Reason I mention Compressed air or HPA is that you get considerably more bang for the buck. CO2 is measured by weight for refills and HPA is measure by volume. CO2 when released from the tank expands only to about 1800psi max, while HPA, as mentioned is compressed to up to 4500psi. So for the same sized tank, you will have more compressed air than CO2. Compressed air is typically more consistent as well as it doesn't rely on ambient temperature to expand. With that said, HPA tanks are typically more expensive if you get a carbon fiber reinforced tank vs a regular steel tank. A 72ci/3k psi steel tank can be had for $40-60. A comparable carbon fiber wrapped tank will run into the hundreds. Co2 tanks can usually be had for something like $20 for a 20 oz tank. This is usually the biggest tank offered most places. Again, I would be curious how much air it would take to raise a bug? Honestly, I would be more apt to just use airshocks, and a cheap home compressor to raise the car. Rigging up a system using Co2 or HPA raise it back if you are out somewhere would be more of an emergency route. Its an interesting idea though.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:16 pm    Post subject: Re: nitrogen or co2 air ride? Reply with quote

Air SHOCKS are SHOCK ABSORBERS ....... they aren't meant to take the weight of the vehicle ; they are meant to reduce the up and down movement while the rest of the suspension provides support of the vehicle .
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:10 pm    Post subject: Re: nitrogen or co2 air ride? Reply with quote

slalombuggy wrote:
...
2 - Your car will have to carry a placard for having a compressed gas cylinder on board like the ones you see on trucks transporting them...

brad


Not according to Code of Federal Regulations, 9 CFR 172.504 says "placards are not required on... a transport vehicle... which contains less than 454 kg (1001 pounds) aggregate gross weight of hazardous materials covered by table 2 of paragraph (e) of this section" which is referring to 2.2 nonflammable compressed gases.

Found that out in Dangerous Goods training when someone tried to get me in trouble for picking up fire extinguishers and oxygen bottles from the FedEx ship center Wink
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Sharp64 Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:46 pm    Post subject: Re: nitrogen or co2 air ride? Reply with quote

^^^^ true. If carrying a compressed tank required a placard, anyone transporting paintball tanks, fire extinguishers, filled air compressors, propane tanks, etc would all have to have them.

Agreed with GP as well.

Lastly, I would not drive around with a filled co2 tank in my trunk. Once had one sitting too close to a radiator in my home office. Heated the tank up too much and popped the disc on it. Scared the bejesus out of everyone in the house!! My tanks were all relegated to the basement after that.
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killrickykill
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:20 am    Post subject: Re: nitrogen or co2 air ride? Reply with quote

Have you ever seen a car bagged with nitrogen/co2? I would not recommend it for a tiny car like this. Because of the amount of pressure in the tank it fills bags/air shocks really really fast. Nitrogen in a full sized truck can fill fast enough to hop the truck, in a Beetle I imagine you could do some damage to tie rods and ball joints depending on the year. Plus, although it may be cheaper initially, because you have to always refill the tank eventually it will cost more than a compressor or two that are a fixed cost. I've built a lot of air ride cars and for a Beetle I would never suggest nitrogen, or really in any car with air shocks, double bellow bags can handle the swift pressure changed especially with the weight of a heavy car acting as a limited to quick expansion but even those will blow, air shocks are not anywhere near as sturdy. If you're running air front and rear get two compressors and at least a 2 gal tank and it's honestly pretty affordable. Air management, accuair or what have you is where air ride parts get expensive, tanks and compressors are relatively cheap and you can use manual paddle switches to keep costs down over electronic valves and switches (although I would also say for appearance and use ability that electronic air management is worth the hefty price)

Anyway, that's just my two cents from having done all this a bunch of times before, good luck either way
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