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Barrel shim advice
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Isoraidatorcap
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:13 pm    Post subject: Barrel shim advice Reply with quote

I'm getting ready to rebuild my 1600dp using the 1700cc bolt on kit from toplineparts.com I wanna raise the compression up a bit but don't wanna kill all the new parts by slapping the piston and heads ... The heads are 53cc and I'm using the factory cam and crank /rods the kit came with .020 shims . I don't know what the motor has in it now as far as shims but yea this will be my first time getting this deep into a vw motor and I want it to last me seeing as its my daily. Thanks much in advanced
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modok
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Barrel shim advice Reply with quote

You will have to flycutt he heads, bore them for bigger cylidners, or stroke it, to raise the compression any significant amount.

If the pistons are too close the head, shims are used to fix that, and that's all they really should be used for. Compression is controlled by the heads.


I don't know what a 1700 kit is....
but stay away from thinwall cylinders, if it NEEDS to last.
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Isoraidatorcap
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:31 am    Post subject: Re: Barrel shim advice Reply with quote

modok wrote:
You will have to flycutt he heads, bore them for bigger cylidners, or stroke it, to raise the compression any significant amount.

If the pistons are too close the head, shims are used to fix that, and that's all they really should be used for. Compression is controlled by the heads.


I don't know what a 1700 kit is....
but stay away from thinwall cylinders, if it NEEDS to last.


The top of the barrels are 92mm the heads have been machined and flycut to fit a 92mm jug/barrel with a 53cc chamber . the bottom is thin enough to fit the as41 case with no machine work needed
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clonebug
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:09 am    Post subject: Re: Barrel shim advice Reply with quote

If those are the 88mm thickwall P/C's then with an untouched case you will probably be at about .050 in. deck if it is anything like mine. If you are running a longer stroke crank then you will have less deck.

I am running 88mm pistons on a stock crank and have .062 in. deck with a .010 barrel shim and 52cc chamber heads for a compression of 7.8:1.

If you want higher compression you can go .040 deck with the 53cc chamber heads to bump it up a bit. That will get you to 8.1:1. You might have to deck the case to get that.

I run a W-100 cam with my engine and it runs nice.
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http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127936
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Isoraidatorcap
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:58 am    Post subject: Re: Barrel shim advice Reply with quote

Yes they are the thick walled 88s the motor in my big was rebuilt before I got er I'm assuming its going to be stock 69mm stroke crank and cam. I would love to be at the 8:1:1 ratio so I can have that little extra performance for the budget lol. I've had a couple people in a fb group tell me that at a .040 id hit the heads I've had others tell me naw you are fine u can go to a .030 and get 8:5:1 and it will run forever kinda thing. but I keep getting the same answer I do like that's consistent go to the samba you can get a true answer to the questions u ask . I've run the calculator on cb performance to
Get the right numbers but if it will work is the biggest question
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clonebug
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:34 am    Post subject: Re: Barrel shim advice Reply with quote

Isoraidatorcap wrote:
Yes they are the thick walled 88s the motor in my big was rebuilt before I got er I'm assuming its going to be stock 69mm stroke crank and cam. I would love to be at the 8:1:1 ratio so I can have that little extra performance for the budget lol. I've had a couple people in a fb group tell me that at a .040 id hit the heads I've had others tell me naw you are fine u can go to a .030 and get 8:5:1 and it will run forever kinda thing. but I keep getting the same answer I do like that's consistent go to the samba you can get a true answer to the questions u ask . I've run the calculator on cb performance to
Get the right numbers but if it will work is the biggest question


If you plan on doing a full rebuild and decking the case you have pretty well any compression option you want depending on how much they take off the case deck.

My case was a good clean case and needed no machine work when I had it rebuilt.
I had new bearings, cam, P/C's and oil pump put in.
The rods were good.
Heads were redone with new guides and a couple exhaust valves and they were good to go.
I had less than $1300.00 in it.

Adding or subtracting .010 in shims or a one cc up or down is only going to make about a .1 difference in compression.
You should just dry assemble...confirm where you are at and if between 7.8-8.1 compression just go for it.
I doubt it would be worth the money redecking a case to add a tenth or two to the compression.

My engine has great low end power but it is turboed and boost comes on early so I wouldn't know how it would feel N/A.
I know I wouldn't be happy without the turbo.
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vwracerdave wrote:

Take a good long look in the mirror and report back on what you see.


Paul.H wrote:
That one line on that chart is probably better info than you can get from this place in a month



My Megasquirt Fuel Injection Turbo Buggy Build
Water/Alcohol Injection
Audi TT intercooler
Upgraded to MS3Pro-Evo
EcuMaster PMU16
ECUMaster ADU5 Digital Dash


http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127936
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Isoraidatorcap
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:59 am    Post subject: Re: Barrel shim advice Reply with quote

I would love to boost my bug I've always been a boost baby myself and would really like to go this route myself when the budget permits what all have you done to boost prep ur motor and what kinda boost are u running
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Danwvw
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Barrel shim advice Reply with quote

I just did what your doing and I had my case cleaned up ie decked .005" and with the rods I had, my deck came up at .050" I would have it rather been .030 but with stock or even a W-100 cam (which is what I have) it's better if the compression does not get too high.

Here is the post I made at the time:
Danwvw wrote:
My compression will be about right without them so I am wondering if should use metal paper or none at all and what to seal them with.
The Paper measures about .085" and the 10 thousands metal shims are actually measuring .012" to .014"

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


My Deck is measuring .050" without any shims or paper gasket.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


CB Performance Engine Calculator
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I wound up using no shim or paper gasket at all just RTV:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Not all types of rods are the same length! Mine kind of seemed short, Not sure what they are, something aftermarket. Stock VW Rods are 5.395" and some are 5.4" Perhaps 5.4" rods would reduce your deck and increase the CR.
Below a picture showing the rods:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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clonebug
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Barrel shim advice Reply with quote

Isoraidatorcap wrote:
I would love to boost my bug I've always been a boost baby myself and would really like to go this route myself when the budget permits what all have you done to boost prep ur motor and what kinda boost are u running


Engine is stock crank non C/W, stock rods, 88mm AA pistons and cylinders, .062 deck, 52cc stock heads(Added DRD 40X37.5 Heads last winter), W-100 cam, Single HD springs, 26mm oil pump, full flowed with filter.
Engine has no turbo prep.

Ran 13 lbs. boost with Pict 34 carb.
Running 22 lbs boost with WI and MS EFI.

This is not to say it has gone perfectly smooth........I have replaced P/C's once due to excessive blow by while running the carb.(Better than a destroyed engine) Fought detonation almost the whole time over 8 lbs.
(WI cured that.)
I'm having an issue with my DRD heads, whether turbo related, my fault or Head itself remains to be seen. Intake valves are leaking excessively after 12,000 miles.

Otherwise it's been a great driver and I have 20,000 plus miles on the Buggy with turbo.
_________________
vwracerdave wrote:

Take a good long look in the mirror and report back on what you see.


Paul.H wrote:
That one line on that chart is probably better info than you can get from this place in a month



My Megasquirt Fuel Injection Turbo Buggy Build
Water/Alcohol Injection
Audi TT intercooler
Upgraded to MS3Pro-Evo
EcuMaster PMU16
ECUMaster ADU5 Digital Dash


http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127936
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