Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Ethiopia Type 4 Rebuild
Page: 1, 2  Next
Forum Index -> Bay Window Bus Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
rik-shaw
Samba Member


Joined: December 28, 2014
Posts: 92
Location: Ethiopia
rik-shaw is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:24 am    Post subject: Ethiopia Type 4 Rebuild Reply with quote

<Edited to consolidate 3 posts into one!>

Gentlemen,

Thanks a lot for the help last year in dealing with a crumbled exhaust valve guide (1976 type 4 engine) that came out in my exhaust pipe. We replaced ALL guides with a local machine shop here (Ethiopia .... lets say technical precision isn't what it is in the US Smile, replaced 1 piston that was a 96mm one with a sourced 94mm one to match the others, did other maintenance like rebuilding the distributor, etc. And overall were feeling pretty decent about life.

Until last week. Then an unholy banging started up and I got it off the road as soon as possible. It was clearly something inside so we took out the engine, and in intake manifold hole #3 found this:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The new brass intake valve guide had broken, rattling loose in there and sending pieces into the cylinder, with the piston now looking like this:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


And the head looks like this:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


In short, the machinist who inserted the valve guide must have either damaged it inserting it OR it wasn't a tight fight (I see there are some oversize ones for sale, which I assume is the way I should go for replacements). Do I replace ALL 4 intake valve guides (again) or just the broken one? I am afraid the other 3 may be of similar poor quality? (again not sure if is the guide or the installation that was the problem, or maybe just it not fitting tight enough).

Now, I have sourced a new set of pistons / cylinders (obvious need) from ebay, and also got a clutch plate and flywheel as they were in trouble. These will be coming with a "friend". Getting a carrier is hard as the mail system isn't really an option around here.

While the entire engine is apart, I am looking at a few things trying to sort out what would be good to replace.

First up, it seems obvious the cam bearings are bad:


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



But what about the lifters? Are they supposed to be "flat" or "slightly dished"? I tried to capture the "non-flatness of them in this image (slight dishing, not 100% consistent among the Cool. Also note that the edges of this lifter are a bit "chewed up":


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



So do these need replacing? If so, where is a preferred place to source them? This may be related to cam questions (if I need to replace one or the other I need to "match" right?).


Once again, while the engine is out we are looking at other parts to see what need replacing. I am trying to learn how all this works at the same time so be patient Smile

Here's my camshaft, with the "5 rivets", the GEAR stamped 021.109.111B VW 2H

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


And here's the stamp from the camshaft itself stamped 021.101J

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



First, the idiot question I haven't been able to answer yet: are these "saddle groves" supposed to be in the middle of each lobe on the type 4 camshaft?

lobe 2 (from the flywheel end):

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.




lobe 1 (from the flywheel end):

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.




lobe 3 (from the flywheel end):

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.




lobe 4 (from the flywheel end):

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



So I guess that is the main question, is trying to evaluate the "wear" on the lobes, and if the camshaft needs to be replaced. If those "saddles" are supposed to be there, you will see that on lobe 1 and lobe 4 they are pretty "worn. But is it still marginally acceptable?

If it needs to be replaced, I am having a beast of a time trying to sort out what exact part I need as research here shows that the numbers are hard to match. There is lots of talk in past years about the "Raby 5950 Cam:" it still available? There is talk about the "type 4 store" but where is that? I need matching lifters right? Are stock push rods, rockers, etc. all OK, just need new lifters and a camshaft? Again I am at 8000 ft if that has any implication.

Rik
1976 Kombi Type 4 2.0L Ethiopia


Last edited by rik-shaw on Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
lil-jinx
Samba Member


Joined: August 14, 2013
Posts: 1109
Location: New Brunswick,Canada
lil-jinx is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Broken Intake Valve Guide Leads to Woes Reply with quote

Those heads are not worth putting any money or time into.
_________________
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620186
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=668799
1974 Bay Westfalia. she likes to be called Ethel.
1968 Dune Buggy
1974 parts bus
A smart man learns from his mistakes,a very smart man learns from other's mistakes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Clatter
Samba Member


Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7527
Location: Santa Cruz
Clatter is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Broken Intake Valve Guide Leads to Woes Reply with quote

I say go ahead and post all of your engine issues on one thread.
It won't be that hard to keep track of..

Kudos to you for trying to eek out a motor refresh in Ethiopia.
It's hard enough to do here in the US!

Oversize guides are often going to be needed on well-worn bus heads.

Any automotive machinist used to iron, or water-cooled aluminum heads, is going to likely set the guide interference looser to the hole than what is done for air-cooled aluminum heads.

Because the air-cooled aluminum heads gets so hot, and aluminum expands as much as it does, guides need to be tighter.


How many busses do you have in your area?
Are there a lot of them to be found?

Depending upon what the environment is like for parts hunting,
You might be able to find another set of heads?

Type 4 heads from a 411/412 or 914, or even a 1.7 bus, are going to likely be in far better shape than 2.0 bus heads.
_________________
Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
rik-shaw
Samba Member


Joined: December 28, 2014
Posts: 92
Location: Ethiopia
rik-shaw is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Ethiopia Type 4 Rebuild Reply with quote

OK guys, consolidating here on this thread.... sorry for the confusion earlier with separate threads... I'll quote below relevant replies from others on the other 2 threads... thanks again so far!

lil-jinx wrote:
That cam is worn out.as is the bearings,many here reccomend the webcam cam 142 grind,your choice will depend on what you use the bus for,and how much you're willing to spend on it,you have to replace the lifters when you replace the cam,get the lifters from the same place you get your cam.
The type 4 store probably has the best you can buy,and their price reflects it.
Check the engine case,measure every thing ,there are many factors concerning cam choice,price been the lease of
them.Displacement,compression ratio,weight of vehicle,speed requirements,type of fuel available,intake and exhaust valve size are some things that must be considered.
So check every thing,make a plan,make a list,then open the wallet and watch you cash fly away,good luck and have fun.


Clatter wrote:
Wow. Carnage.

I have never seen a set of cam bearings toasted like that! Shocked

Looks like the drain-back passage from the cam plug was clogged?

Lifters are supposed to be convex, not flat, and certainly not concave! Shocked


I feel for you, brother. You will need most everything..



telford dorr wrote:
I have ('71 bus, stock w/full-flow filter, left middle cam bearing):
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

The weird thing is that the right half bearing and the front and rear bearings were fine. Go figure...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Wildthings
Samba Member


Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50262

Wildthings is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:38 am    Post subject: Re: Ethiopia Type 4 Rebuild Reply with quote

rik-shaw wrote:

The new brass intake valve guide had broken, rattling loose in there and sending pieces into the cylinder, with the piston now looking like this:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


And the head looks like this:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This looks like detonation damage to me, not damage from an object beating around in there. I would guess your timing was at least 5° too far advanced and/or your fuel's octane rating was just too low for your engine.



.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
rik-shaw
Samba Member


Joined: December 28, 2014
Posts: 92
Location: Ethiopia
rik-shaw is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:06 am    Post subject: Re: Ethiopia Type 4 Rebuild Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
This looks like detonation damage to me, not damage from an object beating around in there. I would guess your timing was at least 5° too far advanced and/or your fuel's octane rating was just too low for your engine.


The "chewed up piston" and head are the one with the broken intake valve guide. Obviously the chunk of valve guide was sucked into the cylinder.... and it is all shiny due to it happening just before stopping.... there were lots of aluminum shavings in a few of the pushrod tubes and lots in the oil filter screen.

I am trying to sort out if a carrier can bring new heads (or if I can afford them.... seems that aircooled.net is probably my best best), as the carrier coming next week will already be at the 50lb max with the pistons, cylinders, flywheel, cam, and lifters. I needed to move fast on getting the cam and lifters because the carrier coming next week can handle a "full checked bag" of parts but from here on out I can just get some "small things" to an occasional traveler (such as bearings, valves, etc)... so I needed to get the big stuff all for this first traveler next week. So from aircooled.net I got the camshaft and lifters rush ordered last night after advice from you guys:


    - SCAT C25 Type 4 Camshaft (closest to "stock" that I can find available ... no performance needed here just need to put put down the road!)

    - SCAT Type 4 Bolt on Cam Gear

    - SCAT Type 4 solid lifters

    - Type 4 Standard Thrust Cam Bearings


We are heading to the machine shop on Monday to check on heads and bearings (crank, rod), but again I am leaning toward new heads as well but again these are heavy so need to find out if a possible traveler can bring them. Would still need to see about pushrod and rocker condition... I'll try to get some pics shortly of those.

The SCAT C25 Camshaft indicated that HD springs were needed: would a "new head" include heavy enough springs? I didn't want higher perf camshaft but I don't think any "stock camshafts" are available anymore it seems.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
borninabus
Samba R&D Dept.


Joined: May 18, 2006
Posts: 4532
Location: Arizona Highways
borninabus is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:17 am    Post subject: Re: Ethiopia Type 4 Rebuild Reply with quote

what this looks like to me is a catastrophe due to overheating and/or general neglect in either order.
everything i see here is trash, sorry Sad

you'd better get a GOOD look at the engine case.
and as the boys say around here: "don't re-use the oil cooler" Wink
_________________
71 Ghia A/S - 88 Van A/T - 13 JSW TDI 6M/T
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
rik-shaw
Samba Member


Joined: December 28, 2014
Posts: 92
Location: Ethiopia
rik-shaw is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:26 am    Post subject: Re: Ethiopia Type 4 Rebuild Reply with quote

borninabus wrote:
what this looks like to me is a catastrophe due to overheating and/or general neglect in either order.
everything i see here is trash, sorry Sad

you'd better get a GOOD look at the engine case.
and as the boys say around here: "don't re-use the oil cooler" Wink


I can GUARANTEE there is unfortunately 40 years of prior neglect here. When I did the valve guides last year I scoured and found the "under cylinder engine tins" as they had been thrown out (as had a third tin, between cylinder 2 and the fan shroud). But also with that bad exhaust valve guide, the valve covers were pressurized causing oil to be pushed OUT the breather. So oil circulation had been compromised. This state (bad valve guide and thus poor oil circulation) were how I purchased the bus... we are just improving it incrementally as best we can over here.

BTW, flaps in the fan shroud have LONG been removed. The electric heater fan is direct wired to the coil so it runs all the time, supplementing the air going over the exhaust manifolds (?) From the heat exchanger forward it is empty air (connectors to the cabin air are long gone).

Thanks for the indication that the oil cooler should probably be swapped out. I'll add it to the wish list. I could try to run some kerosene through it to see what sort of flow it has?

PS to the previous inquiry: there are several buses on the road over here, but it is very very rare to have a type 4 engine. Some are the first-gen, but most are the bay windows with the 1.6L. Even more ubiquitous are the Type 1 bugs: they are everywhere! At 8000 ft, with relatively cool ambient temps even neglected machines keep running a LONG time over here.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
aerosurfer
Samba Member


Joined: March 25, 2012
Posts: 1602
Location: Indianapolis, IN
aerosurfer is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:21 am    Post subject: Re: Ethiopia Type 4 Rebuild Reply with quote

Would it be easier and cheaper in the short term to to source the tins and conversion parts for a 1600 upright?

It sounds like you are trying to get this fixed ASPA, but your list keeps getting longer. Put a more common setup (locally) and then build the T4 properly on less of a timeframe
_________________
Rebuild your own FI Harness..My Harness

77 Westy 2.0L Rockin and Rolling Resto!

72 Sportsmobile (sold)
79 Tran$porter... Parts car money machine (gone)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
SGKent Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
SGKent is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:43 am    Post subject: Re: Ethiopia Type 4 Rebuild Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
rik-shaw wrote:

The new brass intake valve guide had broken, rattling loose in there and sending pieces into the cylinder, with the piston now looking like this:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


And the head looks like this:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This looks like detonation damage to me, not damage from an object beating around in there. I would guess your timing was at least 5° too far advanced and/or your fuel's octane rating was just too low for your engine.

.


x2. The damage is mostly on the deck areas. I don't see lots of nicks on the area around the valves. Detonation doesn't need 80 MPH to happen. The cam is worn out.
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Clatter
Samba Member


Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7527
Location: Santa Cruz
Clatter is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:14 am    Post subject: Re: Ethiopia Type 4 Rebuild Reply with quote

Stoked to see this coming along..

Sounds like you live in a remote location, hard to get deliveries;
With shipping and all, it must cost a fortune.

Would be cool to see your work set-up and what your area looks like.
You are about as far away from here in Northern California as imaginable..

My build thread here in my sig is about building on the cheap,
but is based upon being able to find decent cores easily..
Maybe it will be some help to you?

Looks like you lost two valve guides?
Two chambers look beat up..


Too bad you weren't local - I have some junk in my stash that would help you out.
It wouldn't be worth shipping though;
Once you pay to ship stuff that far, it's worth getting new.

Looking at the C25, it specs .430 lift and 234' @ .050".
That puts it a little bigger than a Web 73, at .426 and 224' @ .050".
The 73 is a bit lumpy IME, you do have to rev it a bit to make power.
(I only have experience with Web cams)

You will notice that the Web 91 grind, at .430 and .234 @ .050", they (aircooled.net) say 'does not work with stock FI'.

So,
Be prepared for the Scat C25 to be a relatively 'big' cam for a heavy bus.
With FI, it's likely to have running issues at different tune.
With dual one-barrel carbs, it might idle lumpy, and on two cylinders.
With dual two-barrels, it will run great.

What do you run for induction?
_________________
Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Clatter
Samba Member


Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7527
Location: Santa Cruz
Clatter is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:28 am    Post subject: Re: Ethiopia Type 4 Rebuild Reply with quote

SGKent wrote:
Wildthings wrote:
rik-shaw wrote:

The new brass intake valve guide had broken, rattling loose in there and sending pieces into the cylinder, with the piston now looking like this:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


And the head looks like this:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This looks like detonation damage to me, not damage from an object beating around in there. I would guess your timing was at least 5° too far advanced and/or your fuel's octane rating was just too low for your engine.

.



x2. The damage is mostly on the deck areas. I don't see lots of nicks on the area around the valves. Detonation doesn't need 80 MPH to happen. The cam is worn out.




I'll play devil's advocate, and say you are both wrong.

Detonation damage I have ever seen looks like 'erosion', where it's a crumbly, missing area with rough edges - usually see it around valve seats.

(Ever take apart a waterboxer?)

This motor here, you can see that it was specific spots where the metal was beaten away.

Really sticking my neck out, because this would require that the OP drove with _two_ broken guides (or other debris) in both holes.
(which I'll bet you is the case)

Otherwise, there is a possibility of the broken piece jumping from one hole to the other..
if a valve had been stuck in the guide,
And allowed the piece of broken guide to jump from one hole to the other..
(possible running a carb with common manifold).

Because the quench pads are what got dinged up, and not the bottom of the chamber, is further evidence;
There just wasn't a big enough piece to cause dings in the chamber...
_________________
Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
lil-jinx
Samba Member


Joined: August 14, 2013
Posts: 1109
Location: New Brunswick,Canada
lil-jinx is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Ethiopia Type 4 Rebuild Reply with quote

Or 2 pieces broke off,first piece got trapped in the valve,holding it off it's seat,causing back fire up into the intake,blowing the second piece into the manifold then made it's way into the other cylinder.Whatever it fubar.
_________________
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620186
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=668799
1974 Bay Westfalia. she likes to be called Ethel.
1968 Dune Buggy
1974 parts bus
A smart man learns from his mistakes,a very smart man learns from other's mistakes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
rik-shaw
Samba Member


Joined: December 28, 2014
Posts: 92
Location: Ethiopia
rik-shaw is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:09 am    Post subject: Re: Ethiopia Type 4 Rebuild Reply with quote

Gentlemen,

Thanks again for the help so far. I'll try to post some more pics of the work area (basically a covered "6 car parking spot") as I can, etc. I am on an International School compound in a huge sprawling city, and there is a pretty sharp national colleague here whose job it is to maintain vehicles (about 8 Toyota "Hiace" vans all diesel). He does it all and I'll be going with him to the machine shop tomorrow to measure the crank main bearings, etc. He has worked on a 1.6L VW bus in the past, but it was several years a go. So I am the one reading the guides and advice and working side by side with him, but he is the "leader" of the project.

The reason for the "rush order" on the cam, pistons, flywheel, etc., is because these "big items" need to get to my "carrier" by this coming Thursday so she can pack them and travel next weekend. In this world of needing to beg people to help carry things here it is often "wait wait wait.... hurry I am leaving next week!". I don't forsee anyone else that could get these heavier items to me for the next 6-8 weeks, so I had to jump at that chance. I don't want to rush putting it together and hope to get all parts as needed to "do it right" but I couldn't let this first traveler come without loading them up!

Anyway, maybe I screwed up with my cam choice, but I tried to read what I could and then ... gulp! .... make a quick decision. I have stock PDSIT 2/3 dual single barrel carbs.

Regarding there being damage to both cylinders, it is my guess along with Clatter and or lil-jinx that a piece got into cylinder 3 and hopped over to cylinder 4. But I still feel pretty confident it is physical damage from an object (and certainly there was an object as there is a big piece missing from the intake valve guide).

In short the last machinist (last year) didn't set the guide tight enough, or he was too shy in communication to let me know that and just kept quiet and let it happen: very unfortunate but as noted previously the pistons and cylinders were just at/past spec.... but the heads! That is where I am going to have trouble! Last year we tried finding one all over the city (that time a cast exhaust valve guide had crumbled away and damaged the head slightly .... other head!) but in the end we only found the "square exhaust manifold" head and it was well worn at that. So I don't have a lot of hope of finding a head here....

So obviously if I buy 2 heads that is going to be another $1000 in parts and they are heavy so I need to get another "lots of space traveler".... ugh if only UPS delivered Smile I am kind of thinking I should do it but we'll go to the machinist tomorrow to discuss the situation. I'll post back with more photos, etc., and a fuller report.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Manfred58sc
Samba Member


Joined: October 05, 2009
Posts: 3374

Manfred58sc is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:18 am    Post subject: Re: Ethiopia Type 4 Rebuild Reply with quote

I would think the American Ethiopian community would have some sort of a social media organization. I'm a Tej maker (still learning) I know many go back and forth now that the capitol is having an economic boom. Tanzania has many ACVW's as well. Social media can make an excellent substitute postal service. Good luck!
_________________
Fat chick owner/operator
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
rik-shaw
Samba Member


Joined: December 28, 2014
Posts: 92
Location: Ethiopia
rik-shaw is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 10:15 am    Post subject: Re: Ethiopia Type 4 Rebuild Reply with quote

Greetings gentleman,

After a week of visiting the machine shop and in general getting tired running around I have the following to report from the machinist (supposedly the "best in the city": the shop is pretty darn professional looking, relatively speaking for over here Smile

-Crank main bearings need to be .25mm oversize

-Rod bearings are "standard", but the crank at cylinder 4 needs to be 1mm oversize (!!). It must have been damaged under a previous owner and machined down. I can't find 1mm oversize rod bearings online, so will need to see if we can possibly custom fabricate one here.

-besides the one broken intake valve guide, another exhaust valve guide was completely loose. A third was not very solid. So obviously the replacement guides put in last year should have been oversized, but my Amharic wasn't good enough (and my experience not enough) to know that last year when these "new" guides were put in. The machine shop says they should be a "minimum .25mm oversize". The best oversize valve guides I can find are .15" (which is .375mm) oversize, as aircooled's other oversize of .002", .005", and .008" would not be big enough - .25mm would be .01

-The KEY question for today is that I neglected to measure the OUTSIDE of the valve guides before leaving them at the machine shop. I see on aircooled that there are OD of 13mm or 14mm for the 8mm and 9mm ID that I need (8mm for intake, 9mm for exahust). So can someone confirm that for a 1976 2.0L Type 4 that 13mm is the correct OD for valve guides?

================

I found another traveler that is leaving fairly soon, so need to make an order by Sunday evening so that it is ready to ship as soon as possible on Monday morning. Yes I absolutely HATE this "wait wait HURRY" approach to purchases but it is what I am stuck with. So, let me itemize what I have purchased already and what I *think* I need to purchase. Please help me finalize this list as able! Thanks!

ALREADY purchased (should be in the air over the Atlantic as we speak):
- Flywheel
- Flywheel Seal (German)
- Crankshaft seal (fan end)
- Clutch disk
- HD Clutch Bolt kit
- HD Throwout bearing
- 94mm piston and cylinder set
- engine gasket kit
- camshaft: SCAT C25
- SCAT Type 4 bolt on Cam gear
- Lifters: SCAT Solid
- Standard Thrust Cam Bearings
- Transmission input shaft pilot bearing

NEED to purchase (order needs to be made Monday, with 2 day shipping):
- 2x rear engine mounts
- Oil Cooler - Type 4
- Main Bearing dowel pins (a few seem a bit worn)
- Oil Dipstick tube boot
- Main bearing set - Type 4 (OD standard, ID .25mm oversize)
- Rod Bearing Set - German Type 4 - standard journal size: WILL need to fabricate a 1mm oversize ID for 1 rod as the crank has been machined
- Wrist Pin Bushings (4) - 24mm

NEED to purchase have QUESTIONS:

- Valve Springs, Type 4 (Cool: The SCAT C25 cam mentioned I should get "HD springs", but for the Type 4 I don't find any HD springs, only what seems to be "stock" ones from aircooled. Other sites don't mention HD either (??)

- Valve Guides: Exhaust: 9 x 13 x 61mm (oversized .15" or .375mm): can someone confirm these are correct, instead of 9 x 14 x 61mm that is also available?

- Valve Guides: Intake: 8 x 13 x 61mm (oversized .15" or .375mm): can someone confirm these are correct, instead of 8 x 14 x 67mm that is also available?

- Intake Valves: machinist said they were OK, but should I get them anyway? That would be 37.5 x 8 x117mm correct? I also see there is a stainless steel option? Should I go for those instead?

- Exhaust Valves: machinist said they were OK, but should I get them anyway? That would be 33 x 9 x 117.2mm correct? I also see there is a stainless steel option? Should I go for those instead?


WHAT ELSE DO I NEED WHILE I AM IN HERE?


- Oil pump gears seem "OK" (?)

- Used Kerosene with an air hose to blow out the oil passages.... seem decently clean and free (?)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Wildthings
Samba Member


Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50262

Wildthings is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 3:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Ethiopia Type 4 Rebuild Reply with quote

If you have a traveler that is heading to the USA and then returning to your local, why not have them take the heads with them and then ship the heads to either Headflow Masters or Hoffman Automotive Machine. Let these places do the work and then have your traveler bring them back. Or, If you have the funds you could also just buy new heads and have them up graded and leave all your head problems behind.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
rik-shaw
Samba Member


Joined: December 28, 2014
Posts: 92
Location: Ethiopia
rik-shaw is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 10:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Ethiopia Type 4 Rebuild Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
If you have a traveler that is heading to the USA and then returning to your local, why not have them take the heads with them and then ship the heads to either Headflow Masters or Hoffman Automotive Machine. Let these places do the work and then have your traveler bring them back. Or, If you have the funds you could also just buy new heads and have them up graded and leave all your head problems behind.


The problem is one of timing. These travelers coming are longer term folks so right now I don't have any going to the US.

The "risk" in keeping the bus apart too long is that I need to free up the maintenance area for other projects, and of course the longer it is apart the higher risk that some parts "walk off". So while I don't need to "rush" I would like to do what I can to get it on the road in the next month. I have some travel to Kenya in the middle of March (sorry no VWs there from what I know Sad so it would be great to be mostly together by then if possible.

Also one huge variable here is customs: even used automotive items are subject to an approximate 100% - 300% import tax at the airport. Hopefully my travelers bringing the things get "lucky" (sleepy or passive baggage checkers Smile but I have to be prepared for the risk.

All in all, even though the heads look bad I think I need to stay with them (again the machinist here says "no problem" but you have to remember that the mentality here is to not replace parts if ever possible to keep using them because labor is cheap and parts are crazy expensive ... if available at all).

So I do need to confirm the OD of the Valve Guides, and also am deliberating over new valves. But maybe I skip the valves for now, and do plan on new heads "in a year or two", after funds can build up again (??) My budget is already tight, again largely depending on import customs!

There are certainly better ways to do this, but just trying to balance all the variables...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Clatter
Samba Member


Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7527
Location: Santa Cruz
Clatter is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:45 am    Post subject: Re: Ethiopia Type 4 Rebuild Reply with quote

The typical way to get your valve springs right is to get a set of aftermarket type 1 springs, along with retainers and keepers.
They come in a set, usually pretty cheap.
That would also make sure you are OK for your bigger cam, too.

I did that set-up in the 'cheap junk' motor build in my sig, FWIW..

In your situation,
Maybe you could find a machine shop somewhere with a lathe?
Even the smallest little chucker lathe could make a set of guides.

Get some guides from another motor that are big/small enough to be turned to size,
Or maybe even a chunk of bearing bronze, and whittle them from scratch?

If you can get someone with some skill on a lathe, you could make what you need pretty easily...?

Guides aren't super-complicated parts, but you will have to have the tolerances right, as well as the material.

Another thing is, when getting the old guides out - these aluminum aircooled heads will smear/tear/pull the (soft aluminum) material out of the guide hole when driven out if not 'cored' correctly.
Unlike iron/water heads..
Bet you the last guy didn't core the guides, that's why their holes are so big and wouldn't hold the guide.

It might be a crap-shoot getting the guides to stay in now if the holes are buggered up. A jig-bore or line-ream could clean them up, though..

Dag, if I was at that old machine shop with a Saturday and a sixer (And reamers and angle plate and mill and...) I could whittle you up a set of guides that would hold tight to that head (for at least a little while) from a piece of scrap...

Maybe time to find a prototype machine shop somewhere?
_________________
Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
rik-shaw
Samba Member


Joined: December 28, 2014
Posts: 92
Location: Ethiopia
rik-shaw is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:11 am    Post subject: Re: Ethiopia Type 4 Rebuild Reply with quote

Clatter wrote:
The typical way to get your valve springs right is to get a set of aftermarket type 1 springs, along with retainers and keepers.
They come in a set, usually pretty cheap.
That would also make sure you are OK for your bigger cam, too.

I did that set-up in the 'cheap junk' motor build in my sig, FWIW..


Interesting.... I wasn't certain the type1 springs would be compatible (since the online sellers don't mention diameter of the springs...) But if they fit then that is an idea I hadn't thought possible. I'll have to check it out, getting a "HD set" as you mention (with the retainers and keepers).

Regarding the valve GUIDES, the guys here told me the problem was boring the middle. But obviously what you are referring to is drilling the hole FIRST then on the lathe after that. But I hear that they can only do "cast" here, not bronze as I don't know if the raw material would be available. Note that again there were 14mm OD options for the 8mm and 9mm ID guides on aircooled . net So if I did that I would be sure they are "fat enough" and then they machine them down to fit and can be *certain* they are tight. So that is one option (and is actually cheaper as I don't have to pay for the "custom oversize" of the 13mm OD guides).

Regarding valves themselves, any thoughts on if I should just go ahead and replace them ("normal" replacement would be $104, all stainless would be $160), or if they seem to seal up well now are they fine? I am slightly wondering about if the shafts are slightly worn leading to possible oil leakage??

Thanks again for the help along the way.... I'll need to make the order in the next 12 hours Smile

Rik

edit: Clatter that write-up from your sig is amazing....!!! I am reading through it now and thinking "if only, if only!" but will try to take what I can from it as able: namely I am going to take out the galley plugs and get it clean in there. My exhaust manifolds can really use some cleanup too. I have no need for heaters here, but the heat exchangers can use some attention. Big question for me is *no* flaps in my fan shroud / housing so I am trying to sort out what to do to maximize engine / cylinder cooling. As others have noted, by blocking the heat exchanger outlets it may likely mess up my flow to the cylinders (too much wind counter productive??) so I am very interested in feedback on this. Anyway, so much to go through here!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Bay Window Bus All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2023, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.