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greenboat4 Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2014 Posts: 81 Location: Fort Myers
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Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:09 pm Post subject: Can I get the Fuel sender out without removing the engine? |
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I have a 1967 Split window Bus with a 69 Beetle engine and transmission in it (it has been lowered). I can reach behind the engine and see behind the engine.
Can I get the Fuel sender out without removing the engine?
If NOT any Tips/suggestions or things to do or look out for? |
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EverettB Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000 Posts: 69824 Location: Phoenix Metro
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quartermilecamel Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2008 Posts: 3929 Location: ohio
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Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:08 pm Post subject: Re: Can I get the Fuel sender out without removing the engine? |
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you can either remove the engine then the tank, or cut hole in luggage area. I chose cut neat hole because Im not keeping mine 100% stock.........and IM getting older. What I did to cover hole NEATLY, is obtain the same material and use that to make a cover plate. If you do end up cutting hole......either be sure theres no gas fumes because of holes in tank or filler, or dont make sparks. I made mine look like the plate was factory by fitting the plate over the hole matching up the ribs in the metal too. Not overly in love with pulling my engine just to change out the fuel sender. P.S.......there was a suggestion I believe in the progressive refinements or something that showed this process if my memory serves me correctly, so yes be bold and cut hole or stay stock and work a lot. _________________ Waiting for santa to drop off funky green. I can wish can't I???? |
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Harleyelf Samba Member
Joined: April 23, 2009 Posts: 1572 Location: Appleton, WI
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Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:34 pm Post subject: Re: Can I get the Fuel sender out without removing the engine? |
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If the sender is original, it is a brass cylinder about eight inches long and cannot be removed without pulling the tank or cutting a hole in the floor of the luggage area. However, there is a chance it has been changed out. The later senders have an arm and a float, and can be changed in place.
You can remove the 8mm nuts that hold it in place and lift it up to see.
Drain it fully if you decide to remove it. A quart or so will still be in there after the line stops flowing - I always remove the output pipe to reduce the chance of it hanging up on anything. This allows all the sludge to fall into your drain pan. |
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Clara Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2003 Posts: 12400
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Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:52 pm Post subject: Re: Can I get the Fuel sender out without removing the engine? |
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Are you sure the sender is bad? What is it doing? Sometimes the gauge has a ground issue. _________________ The Obsolete Air-Cooled Documentation Project http://oacdp.org/ |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24764 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:20 am Post subject: Re: Can I get the Fuel sender out without removing the engine? |
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Clara wrote: |
Are you sure the sender is bad? What is it doing? Sometimes the gauge has a ground issue. |
Or it could be the ground for the sender is bad and just needs to be cleaned. _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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DadaCheese Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2008 Posts: 837 Location: Richmond, CA
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Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:16 pm Post subject: Re: Can I get the Fuel sender out without removing the engine? |
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When/if/as you do take the sender out, note that the bolts are actually NOT symmetrically placed.
It'll save you 5-seconds to know that you need to put it back in aligned in the same way that you took it out.
...and in case it isn't the grounding of the gauge, and you do take your tank out, here's some pictures and lesson's learned from removing the tank from a '67:
REMOVAL:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6511752&highlight=#6511752
PLACING BACK IN:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6538636&highlight=#6538636 _________________ ----------------------------------------------------------
Dada as in dadaism.
Cheese as in the stuff I love to eat. |
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greenboat4 Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2014 Posts: 81 Location: Fort Myers
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:55 am Post subject: Re: Can I get the Fuel sender out without removing the engine? |
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OK I grounded the sending wire off the sending unit and the gas gauge needle moves to FULL.....
This I believe tells me that the gas gauge and the wiring is OK and that the problem is the Sending unit on the gas tank.....
If so then... should I buy the original style sending unit (7"-8" cylinder ) or is there a better sending unit out there? |
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GLHTurbo Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2009 Posts: 1376 Location: New Jersey
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:13 am Post subject: Re: Can I get the Fuel sender out without removing the engine? |
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greenboat4 wrote: |
OK I grounded the sending wire off the sending unit and the gas gauge needle moves to FULL.....
This I believe tells me that the gas gauge and the wiring is OK and that the problem is the Sending unit on the gas tank.....
If so then... should I buy the original style sending unit (7"-8" cylinder ) or is there a better sending unit out there? |
You can carefully take the cover off the unit, with the single small nut on the bottom. Careful with the fine wire in there! The float might be stuck on a little bit of rust on the shaft it moves on. Just work it down and clean it up with some emory cloth or something. In my case, the shaft was so rotted it was no longer usable. Once you have it out, you should resolder a ground jumper.
See this thread for that mod: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7605744
Otherwise, I'd replace it with a Brazilian VDO OEM style unit. It's the next best thing available. Don't waste time with the chinese junk. _________________ 1957 Beetle
1966 Bus |
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Bruce Amacker Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2007 Posts: 1786 Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:57 am Post subject: Re: Can I get the Fuel sender out without removing the engine? |
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GLHTurbo wrote: |
You can carefully take the cover off the unit, with the single small nut on the bottom. Careful with the fine wire in there! Once you have it out, you should resolder a ground jumper.
Otherwise, I'd replace it with a Brazilian VDO OEM style unit. It's the next best thing available. Don't waste time with the chinese junk. |
Good luck with that, I've tried to repair those and broke the .003" wire every time. Agree on most Chinese senders, they last about 3 months and the float sinks- I have a pile of junk ones. Brazilian VDO is the way to go if you can find them, rumor is they are not currently produced. _________________ '66 Deluxe Bus
'65 Standard Bus
Build threads:
'66- http://www.leakoil.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=2888&sid=54d8dedfb3822f99c7f2ea430cb4e856
'65- http://leakoil.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4263 |
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BarryL Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004 Posts: 14269 Location: Casa de Oro, California
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:20 pm Post subject: Re: Can I get the Fuel sender out without removing the engine? |
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greenboat4 wrote: |
OK I grounded the sending wire off the sending unit and the gas gauge needle moves to FULL.....
This I believe tells me that the gas gauge and the wiring is OK and that the problem is the Sending unit on the gas tank..... |
Try putting the wire back on and hitting the top of the sender with your palm. You never said what was happening before. |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24764 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:21 pm Post subject: Re: Can I get the Fuel sender out without removing the engine? |
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Agreed, you should mention what is happening to the gauge, and do check for clean grounds first. Just believing something is wrong, but not diagnosing the problem will most likely replacing stuff that does not need to be.
Have seen folks have a starting problem, replace the starter, then the battery, then the alternator, then finally replace a $8.00 battery ground strap to find the last was the real problem. _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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farnhamassoc Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2010 Posts: 122 Location: Riverside ca
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Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:31 pm Post subject: Re: Can I get the Fuel sender out without removing the engine? |
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FYI yall,
you can put a late model bug sender in there. That way when the float sinks or if you like paying ridiculous prices for senders, you can change it without removing the tank. 68 and up bug sender. just need to bend the rod so it clears the side of the tank on the pre 67 and is almost a drop in on the 67 only tank. I no longer use the bus ones.
FYI none of the repos gauges read correctly anyway. But they are helpful to know how much fuel you have. All mine with stock senders OR Bug senders read empty with about 4 gallons still in the reserve. Original gauge and bug sender or bus sender read about the same as far as after market. resistor wire is not the same either. The gas gauge is more of a guess to know how much gas you might have pretty much with any setup other than all original German parts. _________________ Owned Countless VWs over the last 35 years.
Restored near 100 vws.
80 Rabbit diesel 1.9 TDI turbo 45mpg
06 Jetta TDI 45mpg
Restored several 11 window kombi and standard
Current inventory 66 delux hard top, so23
60 ragtop and 61 hard top bugs 54 hardtop bug
67 tin top so42 62 SO10 ruthmann bucket truck |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51149 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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NUTSFORBUSES Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2016 Posts: 560 Location: I don't recognize it anymore
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Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:58 pm Post subject: Re: Can I get the Fuel sender out without removing the engine? |
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For the guys who like torture, I bought new Nichrome wire and did a re wire on my sender, it works real good, but working with and soldering "a Hair" is no simple task.
I also have a Bay tank which required a longer sender(bay sender). Cutting a hole would be up to you, I've never done it.
I do know IF someone came up with a new way to read fuel, I would buy it. My first 66 westy was 10 years old when I bought it and the gauge was fairly inaccurate, and ever since I usually watch my mileage. I think VW was lobbied by a greedy tow truck company in the 50's & 60's _________________ kaiser kills kids.com |
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Bruce Amacker Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2007 Posts: 1786 Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:14 am Post subject: Re: Can I get the Fuel sender out without removing the engine? |
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farnhamassoc wrote: |
You can put a late model bug sender in a bus, 68 and up bug unit, just need to bend the rod so it clears the side of the tank on the pre 67 and is almost a drop in on the 67 only tank. I no longer use the bus ones.
All mine with stock senders OR Bug senders read empty with about 4 gallons still in the reserve.
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This is great information, I didn't know a Bug sender had the same bolt pattern as a Bus sender. This is a big issue with my busses and friend's busses.
This brings more questions: Doing searches here it shows the Bug and Bus senders have similar (or the same) resistance range. That means the only real difference is the sweep range of the float. I have a junk tank I can cut in half to watch the sender sweep physically and adjust the rod accordingly. Has anyone done this before? _________________ '66 Deluxe Bus
'65 Standard Bus
Build threads:
'66- http://www.leakoil.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=2888&sid=54d8dedfb3822f99c7f2ea430cb4e856
'65- http://leakoil.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4263 |
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BarryL Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004 Posts: 14269 Location: Casa de Oro, California
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Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:20 pm Post subject: Re: Can I get the Fuel sender out without removing the engine? |
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Bruce Amacker wrote: |
Has anyone done this before? |
I have not but I thought we had baffles that prevent the swing-arm style. Also you still have to take out the og tube so hmmmmm. |
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Culito 11010101
Joined: December 07, 2006 Posts: 5866 Location: Columbia Missourah
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Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:58 pm Post subject: Re: Can I get the Fuel sender out without removing the engine? |
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50 years might be a biiiit of a stretch.
I'm trying the bug one next time. I still have one to remove but I guess that's waiting for the next engine removal. _________________ Copyright CJ Industries, Inc.
'64 standard w/2.0L type 4
'62 bug
johnnypan wrote: |
...dont pay no attention to Culito,he's a cornhole.. |
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SCZ9-1-1 Samba Member
Joined: May 20, 2003 Posts: 716 Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:48 am Post subject: Re: Can I get the Fuel sender out without removing the engine? |
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I cut a hole over mine and put in a stainless steel access hatch like truck beds have. I poo-poo'd the idea of an access hole for a long time and then I learned that there is a VW tech bulletin that shows dealerships how to cut a hole to fix sending units. Over in the Bay Window forums there's a thread as well. My hatch also gives me access to the front of my engine and dual carbs. |
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Culito 11010101
Joined: December 07, 2006 Posts: 5866 Location: Columbia Missourah
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Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 10:44 am Post subject: Re: Can I get the Fuel sender out without removing the engine? |
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To the original question:
Can you remove the original "tube style" sender without removing the engine / tank?
Probably, if you're not worried about saving the original sender. Just crush the tube and bend it as you remove it.
I might try this with my dead aftermarket unit. _________________ Copyright CJ Industries, Inc.
'64 standard w/2.0L type 4
'62 bug
johnnypan wrote: |
...dont pay no attention to Culito,he's a cornhole.. |
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