130 HP Carrera Imitator for 356

[carock]

I am looking at building a 356 kit car, or maybe event buying a $$356$$ by stealing from my daughter's inheritance. I hope to emulate the 356 Carrera performance by building a motor and transmission based on the Type 1. I will be trying to mimic the Carrera performance as closely as possible. The 356 Carrera engine was 1996 cc and made 130 hp at 6500 rpm. Can you suggest engine and transmission builds that will mimic this performance? Cost is really not a big object, however there is no need to throw money at something just to make it more expensive or sound more exotic.

Thanks in advance for your help. I do appreciate it.

[Danwvw]

Well on a VW type 1 case you could go with a 92mm Bore and the Porsche 74mm stroke and run the rods I did in my (1800cc Webcam 163) engine below they are 5.325" long which makes everything else fit just as on a stock VW Type engine! The Webcam 163 is pretty close to a porsche super cam but you could run even more cam with IDA's.
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[slalombuggy]

130hp is super easy with off the shelf parts, nothing exotic needed. Pick your power level

http://www.cbperformance.com/Builder-s-Choice-Engine-Kits-s/116.htm


brad

[Alstrup]

Hmm.
The easy and "simple" way would be to build a nippy 1914.
The "true to specs" way would be to build a 74 x 92 as Dan menthiones.
The behaviure of the engines varies somewhat, since the 356 and also the Carrera have rather large intake port etc. So they rev relatively high before they make power. To make power sort of in the same way with a type 1 based engine you will need more cam duration. If you build the engine a little more modern in lack of a better word, you will get the hp, but you will also get a good deal more usable torque. That´s not a bad thing

T

[Tom_Kathleen]

If you want the sound to go with the perfomacne, get one of these - https://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C31-298-006-038BCJ . I have seen them somewhere for the VW engine. Tom
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Manxter #16, 1968 Meyers Manx & Kick-Out SS #16 (WIP)
Manx Club & CVA

[ALB]

As Alstrup mentioned, 4 cam engines made their power higher up and were not known for torque lower down. Yeah it's fun to be able to rev to 7,000rpm with power, but if you want a jump in and go any time car (including multi hour highway driving trips) anything 2 liters or over with properly ported 40x35 heads, cam/rocker combo that revs to 6,000rpm or so and lifts the valves to about 1/2", 40 or 44/45 IDF's or Dels (the smaller carbs would give better power and throttle response down lower where we do 95% of our driving and give up just a little up top), 1 1/2 or 1 5/8" sidewinder (depending on engine size) and 9-9 1/4:1 would produce 140-160hp, make great power throughout the rpm range so be a ton of fun to drive and not need much more maintenance than stock.

All 356's used a long (compared to type 1) 1st gear, and one way to get something close is to go with a 3.44 ring and pinion. Shorten up 4th a little with a .93 (the .89 is just too long to drive at legal highway speeds with the 3.44) and maybe even use the early 3rd (1.31- I don't know it that's possible with a 3.78 shaft? or go to Weddle 1.30) as well and the thing will be just too much fun to drive! The other option is a custom mainshaft for 1st and 2nd (again from Weddle), but at 1,000-$1,100 it's an expensive way to go, and you still have stock 2 to 3 and 3-4 spacing.

To see what other replica Speedster owners have done, go to http://www.speedsterowners.com/topics

A lot of guys run the engine I've described (bigger but just a little milder) and find that while there's more than enough horsepower, it's the power in the rest of the curve (bottom end and midrange) that makes their cars so much fun!

Have a look at the link below-

http://www.teammfactory.com/calculator/205/60/15/2...3500/1/0/2

The first example is type 1 gearing with the 3.88 r&p, and the 2nd is 3.44 with 1.30/.93 (what I proposed above). As far as I've been able to find out, 356 1st gear final drives ranged from 13 1/2 to about 14, whereas 3.44/3.78 final drive is taller at 13.0. What I really like about the 2nd gearset is the higher highway cruise speeds, yet 4th still being useable at legal speeds. Feel free to substitute other numbers and see what you get.

Fyi- Plastic Speedsters with bigger engines have cooling challenges (there is not enough air intake possible through the engine lid grille without major surgery)- some guys cut a 6 or 7" hole in the firewall, others have dropped the bellhousing breastplate altogether, a few have gone as far as carburetor window type openings (screened) on the sides, and most guys with larger engines find an auxilliary cooler/fan (with thermostat) essential. Lots to read about this on the SOC site.

Hope this helps. Al

PS- don't get caught up in making your car look "period correct", thinking real Porsche owners will appreciate what you've done or even semi-accept you into the fold; most look at our cars with disdain, as they don't have P vin #'s, and that's the end of the discussion. Accept it for what it is, have fun with it, build what you want, and don't worry about what the P owners (or anybody else) think. The SOC, on the other hand, will like it no matter how you build it (it's a big tent and there's room for everybody- my buddy who I've never met Stan said that and it's part of our creed).
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On a lifelong mission to prove (much to my wife's dismay) that Immaturity is Forever!!

[carock]

I get the low and midrange torque stuff. I kind of assume a modern build will have considerably more low end grunt than an old Carrera with the same top end power. In the old days the valves and ports were too big, the cam duration too long, and the combustion chamber shapes were just stupid.

What do people do to beef up the type 1 transmissions for these big motors?

[ALB]

Hardened keys, solid spacers, welded syncro hubs on 3rd and 4th- have I forgotten anything?
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On a lifelong mission to prove (much to my wife's dismay) that Immaturity is Forever!!

[mark tucker]

build a good 2332 and have fun.

[58 Plastic Tub]

I'm "Stan", Al's friend from the SOC. Everybody's going to have an opinion, but here's mine:

I've got a twin-plug, dry-sump 2276 in my speedster replica. You don't have to go anywhere near that crazy to have a fun driver.

I've had 5 or 6 various engines in speedster replicas from "mexi-crate" 1776s (stock everything with a piston/cyl kit and a 110 cam) to a verified 200 hp 2332 with nicasil cylinders. Being underpowered is no fun, but neither is an engine so temperamental that you don't want to drive it across the state line. In a speedster, you'll want to drive it across time-zones. I've driven mine to the west coast and back twice (I live in Illinois).

The sweet-spot is a 2110 with a W120 or something similar and good 40x35 heads (the Panchitos would be perfect). Bolt on some 40s (Dells are nicer) and a nice 1-1/2" or 1-5/8" header, and the power will be almost perfectly matched to the car.

The trick with a speedster is getting enough cooling. Most of the "it'll be good enough with the stock cooler" posts you'll read are coming from guys with Beetles in places where it doesn't get above 90*F very often. It doesn't work with a speedster. Keep the compression reasonable (9:1), and figure on a nice Setrab cooler with a Mocal sandwich oil thermostat. Do it right, and you'll only have to do it once.

As far as the transaxle: do all the stuff Al recommends (pro-street level), but get a 3.44 R/P. A 2110 will push that gear, a 1914 probably won't. Nothing limits the fun like bad gearing, and a stock 1-4 with a 3.44 allows you to cruise at modern speeds on the freeways of this great land.

There's a lot of discussion regarding this sort of thing over on the "SOC" website Al linked to. There's a lot of banter there as well. It's a more friendly, less technical place than this site. People here are generally more technical, but over there they actually have these cars-- so some of the advice on what works and what doesn't is better found over there.

No matter what, don't get hung up on originality. A good 2110 will drive better, and be close enough to "look the part" (if that's important to you). Also be aware that these cars are like paper-dolls for middle-aged men-- you'll perpetually go further and further down a rabbit-hole looking for "perfect", until you could have bought a nice Boxster with what you'll have spent.

Forewarned is forearmed.
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Stan Galat
"A single point in isolation is a reference point. Two points is a line. Three points is a trend. Trends don't lie."