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pullstart
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2016
Posts: 599
Location: Middleville, MI
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 Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:18 am Post subject: Rear IRS torsion tube questions |
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I was working on clocking my spring plates yesterday and looked down into the tube and noticed the center section was 3/4" to 1" lower than the spring plate mounts. Is my tube supposed to be straight through (level)? If so, I'll need to get it to my father in law's shop so we can weld it to the chassis plate and push it back, then reinforce the center.
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4 seater Appletree buggy, road legal with 002 IRS, 3x3 Appletree kit, 6" over Dan's beam with 10" towers and Fox 2.0 shocks, '00 Subaru EJ25 with KEP stage 3 clutch and KEP adapter plate.
my build page: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=662104&start=0 |
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pullstart
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2016
Posts: 599
Location: Middleville, MI
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:32 am Post subject: Re: Rear IRS torsion tube questions |
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I was able to contact Appletree to find out that I'm bent. But I'm glad that I found it, the rear end has always looked a little odd to me and I thought it was just the stock arms. On to more work, sooner than I thought.
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4 seater Appletree buggy, road legal with 002 IRS, 3x3 Appletree kit, 6" over Dan's beam with 10" towers and Fox 2.0 shocks, '00 Subaru EJ25 with KEP stage 3 clutch and KEP adapter plate.
my build page: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=662104&start=0 |
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20380
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:51 am Post subject: Re: Rear IRS torsion tube questions |
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Yes rear torsion tube should be straight...
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
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All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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pullstart
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2016
Posts: 599
Location: Middleville, MI
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:54 am Post subject: Re: Rear IRS torsion tube questions |
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My father in law suggested rather than hauling it over for the work, I could loop a chain from one side of the housing down around a floor jack and back to the other side of the housing. When the hydraulic pressure pushes the center up, the outer ends will be pulled to the ground. He's done it to straighten things before on the race cars, it's worth a shot on the buggy! Stay tuned.
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4 seater Appletree buggy, road legal with 002 IRS, 3x3 Appletree kit, 6" over Dan's beam with 10" towers and Fox 2.0 shocks, '00 Subaru EJ25 with KEP stage 3 clutch and KEP adapter plate.
my build page: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=662104&start=0 |
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jimmyhoffa
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2014
Posts: 1059
Location: St. Louis
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:51 am Post subject: Re: Rear IRS torsion tube questions |
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The list of crap I have straightened like that is long. I'm not guaranteeing success, but the direction of the bend you describe make the chances really good. Remember, be creative. There's more than one way to go to the hospital, make sure to try them all!
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1974 Chenowth 2RL #1244 Street Legal
My other car isn't ridiculous. |
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Q-Dog
Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2010
Posts: 8700
Location: Sunset, Louisiana
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:37 am Post subject: Re: Rear IRS torsion tube questions |
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I straigtened the rear torsion housing on my buggy. It was bent forward a couple inches after being hit in the rear wheel. I had nothing to lose, so I chained the car down at all 4 corners to the posts in my shop and pulled it with a chain hoist. Still driving that car today.
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Brian
'69 Dune Buggy
'69 Beetle Convertible
'70 Beetle |
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pullstart
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2016
Posts: 599
Location: Middleville, MI
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 6:16 pm Post subject: Re: Rear IRS torsion tube questions |
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Thanks guys for the inspiration! I have a rack of steel and between the descriptions and the picture from jimmyhoffa I think I'll have 'er straightened out in no time!
_________________
4 seater Appletree buggy, road legal with 002 IRS, 3x3 Appletree kit, 6" over Dan's beam with 10" towers and Fox 2.0 shocks, '00 Subaru EJ25 with KEP stage 3 clutch and KEP adapter plate.
my build page: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=662104&start=0 |
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dustymojave
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 5802
Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:12 pm Post subject: Re: Rear IRS torsion tube questions |
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After you straighten it, reinforce it.
2 ways to do that:
- tubing welded underneath from left to right with gusset plate connecting the brace tube to the underside of the torsion housing.
- diagonal brace tubes from the junction of the lateral crossbar to the b-pillar, then down to the center of the torsion housing.
Both methods are worthy of recommendation.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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pullstart
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2016
Posts: 599
Location: Middleville, MI
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 5:56 am Post subject: Re: Rear IRS torsion tube questions |
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| dustymojave wrote: |
After you straighten it, reinforce it.
2 ways to do that:
- tubing welded underneath from left to right with gusset plate connecting the brace tube to the underside of the torsion housing.
- diagonal brace tubes from the junction of the lateral crossbar to the b-pillar, then down to the center of the torsion housing.
Both methods are worthy of recommendation. |
Will do, I brought my MIG home from grandpa's shop so once I get some time in the garage I can do the proper bracing. I'll probably take option two, though I hope nothing gets in the way once I start the subi swap. I guess if it does, it gets moved!
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4 seater Appletree buggy, road legal with 002 IRS, 3x3 Appletree kit, 6" over Dan's beam with 10" towers and Fox 2.0 shocks, '00 Subaru EJ25 with KEP stage 3 clutch and KEP adapter plate.
my build page: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=662104&start=0 |
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pullstart
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2016
Posts: 599
Location: Middleville, MI
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| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:11 pm Post subject: Re: Rear IRS torsion tube questions |
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I'm guessing my center section was about 1 1/4 to 1 1/2" low, I could not see the light at the end of the tunnel, straight through. Tonight momma's out with the ladies and the kids are in bed so I headed to the garage. I pulled spring plates and torsion bars, wrapped a chain around the spring plate flange and under my 3 ton floor jack then back to the other spring plate flange. After a bit of slow jacking and moving the jack around a bit, I'm back to straight. Now to plan a support for the center of the torsion tube. Sure feels good to be in the garage!
_________________
4 seater Appletree buggy, road legal with 002 IRS, 3x3 Appletree kit, 6" over Dan's beam with 10" towers and Fox 2.0 shocks, '00 Subaru EJ25 with KEP stage 3 clutch and KEP adapter plate.
my build page: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=662104&start=0 |
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pullstart
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2016
Posts: 599
Location: Middleville, MI
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| Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:19 am Post subject: Re: Rear IRS torsion tube questions |
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Here is how I had my chain and the floor jack to pull it all back together.
My camera angle isn't perfect, but I can see through the tube again! Before, the top torsion splines were below the bottom of the spring plate flange holes.
Here I found a crack in the chassis (circled) and I think I'll repair that, then try to get a tube along the line to the outside of the trans mounts. Would that do the trick?
_________________
4 seater Appletree buggy, road legal with 002 IRS, 3x3 Appletree kit, 6" over Dan's beam with 10" towers and Fox 2.0 shocks, '00 Subaru EJ25 with KEP stage 3 clutch and KEP adapter plate.
my build page: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=662104&start=0 |
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pullstart
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2016
Posts: 599
Location: Middleville, MI
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| Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:42 pm Post subject: Re: Rear IRS torsion tube questions |
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So far I've run the carbs dry, removed the fuel tank and moved wiring out of the way and pulled the rear seat for better welding approach and for some safety...
Funny deal, I gained a 13/16 and 7/8 deep well socket today!
Seat spacers... they're 1/2" drive impact sockets ta'boot!
_________________
4 seater Appletree buggy, road legal with 002 IRS, 3x3 Appletree kit, 6" over Dan's beam with 10" towers and Fox 2.0 shocks, '00 Subaru EJ25 with KEP stage 3 clutch and KEP adapter plate.
my build page: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=662104&start=0 |
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pullstart
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2016
Posts: 599
Location: Middleville, MI
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| Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:20 pm Post subject: Re: Rear IRS torsion tube questions |
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Here's some more work done, I guess if it doesn't work, I'll think of something else down the road!
I'm done for the night, unless I happen to find a spool of weld wire in the garage.
I had a shorter scrap of tube that I used to mock up my first cut. With the help of some construction paper and a 1/2" extension with a big socket to keep the tube in line.
I figured this would be the easiest place to weld to, the frame horns for the engine/transmission mount. I also figured this would help support the weight of the Subaru engine that I'd like to get swapped in this year.
_________________
4 seater Appletree buggy, road legal with 002 IRS, 3x3 Appletree kit, 6" over Dan's beam with 10" towers and Fox 2.0 shocks, '00 Subaru EJ25 with KEP stage 3 clutch and KEP adapter plate.
my build page: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=662104&start=0 |
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cbeck
Samba Member
Joined: January 14, 2014
Posts: 2495
Location: high ridge, mo
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| Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:49 pm Post subject: Re: Rear IRS torsion tube questions |
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I did something similar on mine.
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dustymojave
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 5802
Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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| Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:59 pm Post subject: Re: Rear IRS torsion tube questions |
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| pullstart wrote: |
Here is how I had my chain and the floor jack to pull it all back together.
My camera angle isn't perfect, but I can see through the tube again! Before, the top torsion splines were below the bottom of the spring plate flange holes.
Here I found a crack in the chassis (circled) and I think I'll repair that, then try to get a tube along the line to the outside of the trans mounts. Would that do the trick?
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Seems that you're doing good work. That diagonal brace is good. Just as I suggested.
Also good to repair cracks in what's already there before moving on to adding other stuff.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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pullstart
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2016
Posts: 599
Location: Middleville, MI
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| Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:02 pm Post subject: Re: Rear IRS torsion tube questions |
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Thanks for the comments guys. So I kept telling myself when I tacked the tube in place to check for interference with the seat... Well after I ran out of weld wire I decided it was time to check. Must be when they put that bench in, the tube was already bent. I'm clearing my new tube, but the transmission is pushing into the bottom of the bench. I'll take care of that all later, I'm just glad to have progress on the car. Now to get some weld wire and keep progress moving!
_________________
4 seater Appletree buggy, road legal with 002 IRS, 3x3 Appletree kit, 6" over Dan's beam with 10" towers and Fox 2.0 shocks, '00 Subaru EJ25 with KEP stage 3 clutch and KEP adapter plate.
my build page: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=662104&start=0 |
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dustymojave
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 5802
Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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| Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:11 pm Post subject: Re: Rear IRS torsion tube questions |
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Possible the torsion housing was bent before it was welded into the buggy frame. Especially if the frame was built as a kit.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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