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bluebus86
Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075
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 Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:24 pm Post subject: Re: Metal shavings in oil strainer cover |
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| levi wrote: |
To be more honest I wouldn't park it..... yet.
I'd drive it till it dies, then have it towed back and park it.
What a waste to spend half or more of the conversion cost on a rebuild and labor, just to spend it all over again on the conversion in another year.  |
running till it dies is dicey. doing so could destroy the rebuildity or core value of the motor. having the engine sieze on a dark freeway with no place to safely pull over is dangerous. if reliability is not a concern, yes drive it, but remember bad, very bad things can happen when it fails and leaves you stranded on the road. it aint worth the $25 in motor oil and filter to put it back on the road again. time to cut losses and get her towed to a repair place
I dont want to read about the vanagon owner that had his van die on the road and how he got run over by a beer truck, dead as a door nail as he was waiting on the road side for the tow truck. Gitter done.
good luck
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Terry Kay
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Joined: June 22, 2003
Posts: 13331
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| Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:33 pm Post subject: Re: Metal shavings in oil strainer cover |
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Nobody has stepped forward with an educated identification of what is in that strainer.
I know its something, but what?
He would be very foolish in my opinion to pour and twist,just to get down the road a couple more miles.
As mentioned, any value as a rebuilder or saleable core could be destroyed in a couple of rpm's--one turn too many.
Have it towed.
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Merian
Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2014
Posts: 5212
Location: Orygun
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| Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:36 pm Post subject: Re: Metal shavings in oil strainer cover |
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a true vanagon owner would drive it till it blows up, then get the mtn bike out of the back and ride away
...or swap in a bostig or sube
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torbot
Samba Member
Joined: September 09, 2010
Posts: 121
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 7:24 pm Post subject: Re: Metal shavings in oil strainer cover |
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Thanks for all the replies, sambanites! I feel I should mention a couple things;
I'd already finished the oil change and driven home before I even posted. I wasn't aware of the risks at the time but fortunately Dave made it just fine and worked/sounded completely normal to me (ignorance is bliss!). I think that's the one fortunate piece as it's in a safe place and I have time to weigh my options. It will stay there until I figure out what to do.
As far as my swap, I'm planning on installing a TDi, so even if this engine DID blow up, it technically wouldn't make much of a difference. That said, those plans are two years off and I need to figure out what to do in the meantime. It sounds like the consensus is, if I drive Dave much longer there's a chance the engine will 'splode, which is not ideal in my mind, but them's the breaks.
| levi wrote: |
What a waste to spend half or more of the conversion cost on a rebuild and labor, just to spend it all over again on the conversion in another year. |
I'm totally feeling this right now. Is the timing sh*tty? yep!
Do I dislike the idea of putting money into an engine I'm going to replace in two years? absolutely!
But then, we didn't buy a 30 year old VW to save money, we bought it because we love to drive it and camp in it and otherwise enjoy life in it, so armed with the suggestions in this post, I'll do my research and figure out next steps (which for me, will probably involve a shop of some kind). but you folks have at least given me a place to start, and there's some peace of mind in that.
Or maybe I'll sell it and buy a Sprinter (naaah!  )
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bluebus86
Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075
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| Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 7:28 pm Post subject: Re: Metal shavings in oil strainer cover |
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| Terry Kay wrote: |
Nobody has stepped forward with an educated identification of what is in that strainer.
I know its something, but what?
He would be very foolish in my opinion to pour and twist,just to get down the road a couple more miles.
As mentioned, any value as a rebuilder or saleable core could be destroyed in a couple of rpm's--one turn too many.
Have it towed. |
You dont know what that stuff in the strainer is? Well I do....$$$$$$$$$$$$$ 
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
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Merian
Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2014
Posts: 5212
Location: Orygun
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| Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:16 pm Post subject: Re: Metal shavings in oil strainer cover |
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so, you can either make your motor last two years or toss $$ at it that would be wasted two years off 
how many miles a year do you usually drive?
does the engine make any noises yet? are they more high pitched or low pitched?
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amwaj
Samba Member
Joined: February 18, 2017
Posts: 68
Location: the desert
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| Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:01 pm Post subject: Re: Metal shavings in oil strainer cover |
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could be oil pump gears...
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torbot
Samba Member
Joined: September 09, 2010
Posts: 121
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:20 pm Post subject: Re: Metal shavings in oil strainer cover |
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| Merian wrote: |
so, you can either make your motor last two years or toss $$ at it that would be wasted two years off
how many miles a year do you usually drive?
does the engine make any noises yet? are they more high pitched or low pitched? |
Yeah. Bit of a sticky wicket, eh? 
We average about 10k a year. I haven't noticed any changes in either the behavior or the sound of the engine, however that's from the driver's seat. I haven't actually removed the hatch and stuck my head back there recently. The engine has been pretty trouble free since I've owned it (78k - 103k), save for an oil leak and occasional difficulty starting (something in the FI I think). I just dug up the receipt from my last visit to the shop back in December which may hold more clues. (Clutch repair, but I'd asked them to look into what's causing the oil leak). Here's what they had to say:
"Engine oil leaks from pushrod tube seals, valve covers, flywheel seal, oil sump cover. Engine had low compression on cylinders 1 & 2, engine may have low oil pressure issues"
I had planned to take it in next month to get the seals replaced, but it appears there's more going on now. Wee!
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bluebus86
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Posts: 11075
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 7:34 am Post subject: Re: Metal shavings in oil strainer cover |
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| torbot wrote: |
| Merian wrote: |
so, you can either make your motor last two years or toss $$ at it that would be wasted two years off
how many miles a year do you usually drive?
does the engine make any noises yet? are they more high pitched or low pitched? |
Yeah. Bit of a sticky wicket, eh?
We average about 10k a year. I haven't noticed any changes in either the behavior or the sound of the engine, however that's from the driver's seat. I haven't actually removed the hatch and stuck my head back there recently. The engine has been pretty trouble free since I've owned it (78k - 103k), save for an oil leak and occasional difficulty starting (something in the FI I think). I just dug up the receipt from my last visit to the shop back in December which may hold more clues. (Clutch repair, but I'd asked them to look into what's causing the oil leak). Here's what they had to say:
"Engine oil leaks from pushrod tube seals, valve covers, flywheel seal, oil sump cover. Engine had low compression on cylinders 1 & 2, engine may have low oil pressure issues"
I had planned to take it in next month to get the seals replaced, but it appears there's more going on now. Wee! |
low oil pressure, low comprsion, metal in oil. sounds like it is being driven into the ground, time for rebuild. nothing has changed, time for rebuild. get it yet? time for rebuild.. oh did i mention it is time for rebuild?
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32591
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 7:45 am Post subject: Re: Metal shavings in oil strainer cover |
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IF I were in your situation......
I would install an oil pressure gauge along with a low pressure warning buzzer.
I would use top quality oil that I would change every three thousand miles or so.
Look for debris on every change and watch the gauge like a hawk.
Listen to your engine while driving, turn off the radio.
A rapid knocking that varies with engine RPM is your death sound.
When that rapid knocking appears STOP and get towed home or to a shop for your engine is about to throw a rod.
Drive gently, don't over rev, take the secondary roads instead of the boring endless Freeways.
With gentle driving and care, you MIGHT get years and thousands of miles.
Or
You might get to the end of your street.
It's a gamble, get AAA if you are taking this gamble.
Feeling Lucky?
Every month of driving you get by doing this is a month of money saved for your planned transplant.
Dave
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bluebus86
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Posts: 11075
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 8:28 am Post subject: Re: Metal shavings in oil strainer cover |
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| djkeev wrote: |
IF I were in your situation......
I would install an oil pressure gauge along with a low pressure warning buzzer.
I would use top quality oil that I would change every three thousand miles or so.
Look for debris on every change and watch the gauge like a hawk.
Listen to your engine while driving, turn off the radio.
A rapid knocking that varies with engine RPM is your death sound.
When that rapid knocking appears STOP and get towed home or to a shop for your engine is about to throw a rod.
Drive gently, don't over rev, take the secondary roads instead of the boring endless Freeways.
With gentle driving and care, you MIGHT get years and thousands of miles.
Or
You might get to the end of your street.
It's a gamble, get AAA if you are taking this gamble.
Feeling Lucky?
Every month of driving you get by doing this is a month of money saved for your planned transplant.
Dave |
money saved???? lets see oil and filter, maybe 25 bucks. gentle driving (ie slow driving) may mean lost time. total failure on highway no safe place to pull over, priceless. maybe it will fail 200 miles from home whilest on vacation? no big deal right? whats a tow cost for 200 miles? mean while main bearing siezes and spins in case and then you find case is trashed becuase the bearing spun. crank may also be damaged beyond regrinding, never mind the hole in the case when rod is thrown yeah thats how to save money alright, jeez how poor are you? you poor enough to afford the carnage, and extra cost of repairs, tows, etc...by driving it into the ground?????
you commute to work in this van? whats a missed day of work cost if she dies on the way to work?
dont be stupid, fix it now, now is the time, dont wait for more damage, being stranded, risk of accident if you stall in an unsafe place.
lots of bad advice to follow.
the engine is done, no more economical, nor reliable use is left. it is done finished, kaput, used up. it needs rebuild
its gone 100,000 miles, now you want the last 100 miles. do the math say 3000 bucks for rebuild, thats one buck per 33 miles, thats a rebuild cost of 3 cents per mile. so if , if you are able to squeeze 100 miles more out of it, you will have saved a big huge 3 bucks!!!!! but you spent 25 bucks in oil and filter to get that extra 100 miles, do the math!!! you aint saving much by extending the life of this motor. oh and the cost of a new case if you destroy the case is how much, a couple 100 bucks maybe, oh the crank was ruined, scratch another 200 bucks, you can easily make the last 100 miles of this engine the most expensive 100 miles
DO THE MATH......
good luck
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Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
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djkeev
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bluebus86
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:07 am Post subject: Re: Metal shavings in oil strainer cover |
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| djkeev wrote: |
Engine isn't "done".
We are all giving advice via keyboard.
Not one of us have heard it run or driven it.
It has been shown over and over again that many many miles can be milked out of a worn engine utilizing knowledge and care. Just go to the Beetle forums some time and read about people nursing worn engines.
Bad advice? I think not.
It may not be a gamble he wants to take however.
With my refreshed fine running Vanagon carrying a bucket load of spare parts and tons of tools..... I carry a tow bar. Do likewise if you fear the tow charge, rent a truck or Van and tow it home if it fails on the highway.
Scroll down and onto page 3, mine is ready to bolt on and go!
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...p;start=20
Dave |
engine is done
it can no longer offer the economical nor reliable use it was designed for. it has reached the wear limit, low compression, low oil pressure. and then the metal in oil. its pissing oil out of seals (screw the enviroment, let her drip, the rain will remove the oil off the street, right?) time to stop throwing good money after bad. time for a planned engine pull, a planned tow to the repair shop.
sure drive it into the ground, do more damage, be stranded, waste oil, no big deal, got to squeeze that last mile, that last three cents of use out of the motor. heck youd need to go nearly 800 miles just to recover the cost of the oil and filter that would need be added to this done motor. 800 more miles,on this time bomb just too break even on oil and filter cost.
its done, its toast. further use may very well end up costing you a lot more for the tow and rebuild. you can do 100's of bucks in damage driving it, all to save 3 cents per mile. yeah baby, time to put a fork in it, its done. the last mile before siezing will be expensive, maybe that last mile will cost 400 bucks (lost crank and case).
heck low oil pressure, lets pour some grease into the crankcase, that ought to bump up the pressure, I heard grease will cushion the bearings too!!
never mind, I see the light, scoop some wheel bearing grease down the oil filler, use a stick to force it down. that will fix it. hell rebuilds are overrated and over priced. Just keep putting band aides on it.and drive with the bliss that comes with not having a care (nor braincell) in the world. maybe pull the spark plugs on the low compression side and run with two cylinders, that will reduce the stress on the dead cylinders and gain you a few 1000 more yards of travel. I read that some Bug owners do that simple trick of removing spark plugs on dead cylinders. Bug owners are so smart. I heard a Bug got an extra 50 miles of life by pouring saw dust into the oil, it built up the pressure and helped plug leaks.
The oil drips from this leaky motor will be carried to some body of water by rain run off, the fish like oil right? I heard of fishoil, must be good for them. driving this oil puking motor is good for fish! so driving a leaky van is good for fishoil, and thats heart healthy.
excuse me while I puke...sorry its the stench of bs around here.
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Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022
Last edited by bluebus86 on Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:27 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Terry Kay
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Posts: 13331
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:17 am Post subject: Re: Metal shavings in oil strainer cover |
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Load the engine up with Lucas, STP, or Rebuild in a can, whatever you can get.
Let her fly, party till it pukes.
Why don't you duct tape a hand grenade to the bottom of the engine, pull the pin, let the spoon fly, step back and watch the action adventure flick right in front of your very eyes.
Cut a cardboard purple heart, tape it in the back window, you'll be good to go.
This is just about as ridiculas as running it till it blows.
Give it a big send off with the hand grenade.
Get it posted up on you tube, you'll be a star.
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torbot
Samba Member
Joined: September 09, 2010
Posts: 121
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:51 am Post subject: Re: Metal shavings in oil strainer cover |
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| bluebus86 wrote: |
| low oil pressure, low comprsion, metal in oil. sounds like it is being driven into the ground, time for rebuild. nothing has changed, time for rebuild. get it yet? time for rebuild.. oh did i mention it is time for rebuild? |
What are you trying to say?
| Terry Kay wrote: |
| Why don't you duct tape a hand grenade to the bottom of the engine, pull the pin, let the spoon fly, step back and watch the action adventure flick right in front of your very eyes. |
TK, this image made me laugh. I needed that 
| djkeev wrote: |
We are all giving advice via keyboard.
Not one of us have heard it run or driven it.
It has been shown over and over again that many many miles can be milked out of a worn engine utilizing knowledge and care. Just go to the Beetle forums some time and read about people nursing worn engines. |
^^ This brings up a good point. I've always driven this vehicle with care, replaced the oil every 3000, taken secondary roads whenever possible and have had AAA since day one. That said, I have ZERO idea how the POs drove it before me, and it very well could be I've already been nursing a worn engine for 3 years 
But here's the bottom line; I live in an apartment and am not qualified nor set up to dig into this myself with any degree of confidence (I'm OK with that). But I'm in the PNW and there's still a decent amount of mechanics around here who know these engines (somebody's got to keep them in business, right?). The van is parked in a safe place and IF I drive it again, it will be to a well-researched shop so they can assess. Then we go from there.
This van has treated us very well since the day we owned it, I'm not gonna turn around and treat it like crap. To the shop it goes, and unless anybody has any mechanic recommendations (rockerarm, I'll look into your guy) I'll consider the topic closed, and will report back what the mechanic finds. Thanks for all the advice folks!
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bluebus86
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:54 am Post subject: Re: Metal shavings in oil strainer cover |
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| Terry Kay wrote: |
Load the engine up with Lucas, STP, or Rebuild in a can, whatever you can get.
Let her fly, party till it pukes.
Why don't you duct tape a hand grenade to the bottom of the engine, pull the pin, let the spoon fly, step back and watch the action adventure flick right in front of your very eyes.
Cut a cardboard purple heart, tape it in the back window, you'll be good to go.
This is just about as ridiculas as running it till it blows.
Give it a big send off with the hand grenade.
Get it posted up on you tube, you'll be a star. |
mr kay, you have missed the whole point, we want to get the last mile out of this motor, then pull the pin on the grenade, and not a mile too soon either as each mile represents three whole cents of rebuild cost. We are not going to waste that three cents, oh no.
What we need to do is devise a way to predict the last mile of this motor, then and only then, when that mile is reached will we pull the pin, we also need the prediction to plan where we will be when she is ready to blow, so a tow truck will be on standby. we dont want it to happen on a rainy night, we want day time, and good weather, and we want to plan it where there is a safe place to pull over.
Your smart, can you tell us what signs, what warnings a motor might make befoe that last mile? will the motor give any signs such as low oil pressure, low compression, or maybe metal chunks in the oil? (opps never frickin mind, the motor has already spoken)
good grief charlie brown!
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Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
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Merian
Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2014
Posts: 5212
Location: Orygun
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 12:50 pm Post subject: Re: Metal shavings in oil strainer cover |
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it will usually make a knocking noise before self-destruction - the noises vary with rod bearings causing a higher pitched knock than crank bearings
20,000 miles is a lot of risk
if you cannot [1] repair the motor properly (which will allow resale) or [2] accelerate your TDI dream? or plan? then [3] you'd better carry a mtn. bike everywhere you drive
then you can be a true vanagon owner and drive it unitl it grenades and just ride away (unless brake failure causes it to crash first; or fuel hoses cause it to burn to cinders first)
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djkeev
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