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Navy_Flyer
Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2012
Posts: 474
Location: Charlottesville, VA
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 Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 8:50 am Post subject: Re: Alternator belt |
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| Tom Powell wrote: |
| Navy_Flyer wrote: |
| ... I triple checked the belt alignment and tension, but to no avail. My solution was to finally take it to a mechanic who works on these engines - and what he found was that my pulleys were out of alignment even though my measurements seemed to be OK. ... |
How did you check the alignment and how did he check the alignment?
Aloha
tp |
I don't know how he did it, I wasn't there to observe it. What I did was take a glass rod and lay it on the main pulley and on the alternator pulley. They 'appeared' to line up perfectly. But that will only show you axial & horizontal alignment, not necessarily angular alignment.
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1987 Westfalia, Automatic. EJ25 VANARU Conversion |
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Tom Powell
Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2005
Posts: 4855
Location: Kaneohe
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| Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 1:31 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator belt |
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I don't know about axial, horizontal, and angular alignment, but a straight edge laid across the faces and passing over the centers of the two pulleys should touch at four points, the inside and outside edge of each pulley. If a pulley is cocked an edge or edges will not touch. If they are out of alignment two edges on one pulley will not touch. If a pulley is cocked and they are also out of alignment several edges may not touch. The gaps sizes will tell the story. If the mechanic put a shim behind the alternator pulley, and that solved the problem, neither was cocked and they were out of alignment. Rust removal probably helped prolong belt life, but was not a solution/cure for the premature wear.
Aloha
tp |
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Navy_Flyer
Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2012
Posts: 474
Location: Charlottesville, VA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator belt |
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| Tom Powell wrote: |
I don't know about axial, horizontal, and angular alignment, but a straight edge laid across the faces and passing over the centers of the two pulleys should touch at four points, the inside and outside edge of each pulley. If a pulley is cocked an edge or edges will not touch. If they are out of alignment two edges on one pulley will not touch. If a pulley is cocked and they are also out of alignment several edges may not touch. The gaps sizes will tell the story. If the mechanic put a shim behind the alternator pulley, and that solved the problem, neither was cocked and they were out of alignment. Rust removal probably helped prolong belt life, but was not a solution/cure for the premature wear.
Aloha
tp |
It was not a shim behind the pulley, it was on a combination of the alternator mounting bolts on the front and top of the block for the bracket.
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1987 Westfalia, Automatic. EJ25 VANARU Conversion |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
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| Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:24 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator belt |
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| Navy_Flyer wrote: |
| Tom Powell wrote: |
I don't know about axial, horizontal, and angular alignment, but a straight edge laid across the faces and passing over the centers of the two pulleys should touch at four points, the inside and outside edge of each pulley. If a pulley is cocked an edge or edges will not touch. If they are out of alignment two edges on one pulley will not touch. If a pulley is cocked and they are also out of alignment several edges may not touch. The gaps sizes will tell the story. If the mechanic put a shim behind the alternator pulley, and that solved the problem, neither was cocked and they were out of alignment. Rust removal probably helped prolong belt life, but was not a solution/cure for the premature wear.
Aloha
tp |
It was not a shim behind the pulley, it was on a combination of the alternator mounting bolts on the front and top of the block for the bracket. |
It would be odd to have to shim the bracket if everything was right on your alternator. With the amount of problems that the alternator bracket is known to give, I would really want to know what was going on for sure.
Last edited by Wildthings on Mon Sep 12, 2016 4:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Tom Powell
Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2005
Posts: 4855
Location: Kaneohe
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| Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:55 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator belt |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| It would be odd to have to shim the bracket if everything was right on your alternator. With the amount of problems that the alternator bracket is known to give, I would really want to know what was going in for sure. |
x2 on what WT says. I would loosen the alternator, remove the belt from the pulley and spin the alternator pulley and look for wobble and I would inspect the mounting of the bracket. It is possible that shims may cause more stress on the holes for the bracket mounts. You may have a time bomb waiting to frag your engine case.
http://www.gowesty.com/tech-article-details.php?id=113
You may or may not have future problems. I don't have the knowledge to predict that, but I can hold up a red flag and suggest that you get some Vanagon experienced inspection and advice.
Post some photos of the shims and let TK and others give their opinions. Standby by for a slam and rant. 
Aloha
tp |
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1fin
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 52
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 3:02 am Post subject: Re: Alternator belt |
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I had just replaced a broken Alternator/Water pump belt. Third replacement in about 3 years. The rate these things wear down is kind of alarming, since it's such a vital part of the engine operation. A friend who was watching me replaced the belt noted that the alternator belt sits much lower in the pulley than other belts, ie sitting lower within the V groove of the pulley.
This got me thinking if this could be the problem causing premature wear. The entire belt is in contact with the V grooves of the pulley, even the sides of the top fabric layer. I've experienced the belts chaffing (fibers fraying) and rubber shavings all of the the engine bay before. If the pulley V-groove was narrower, causing the belt to sit higher (like power steering or crank pulley belts), would this reduce wear on the belt?
Many photos of the Vanagon Alternators show that the belts sit very low within the groove. So I am to assume this was an OEM pulley. I bought my van second hand so have no idea if the original owner had done anything to the alternator.
What do you guys think? |
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akyrie
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2010
Posts: 519
Location: Driftless, Wisco
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 6:40 am Post subject: Re: Alternator belt |
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Tom Powell has got the corrective actions you should take. It could be a loose or broken mount bolt. Make sure the mount bracket and all your bolts are good. Metal can have a hairline fracture that is hard to see, maybe that is your problem. Clean everything and look at it all under good lights. lots of little pita possibilities.
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Although I got a funny message from the Porsche guys, it read, "what a mighty ship that you must sail"
....has anyone else received that?
82 AHU DK, 1950's Puch-black |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 8:50 am Post subject: Re: Alternator belt |
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| 1fin wrote: |
| I had just replaced a broken Alternator/Water pump belt. Third replacement in about 3 years. The rate these things wear down is kind of alarming, since it's such a vital part of the engine operation. A friend who was watching me replaced the belt noted that the alternator belt sits much lower in the pulley than other belts, ie sitting lower within the V groove of the pulley. |
First off buy quality belts. There are often more than one grade of belt from a manufacture and the lower quality one will just bring you grief. I bought a Continental belt a few years back and it was the bottom end one, I had to tighten it banjo tight every week if I didn't want it to squeal continuously. Got rid of it in a couple of months and haven't had to retighten the replacement belt of another brand in several years at this point. |
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1fin
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 52
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:21 am Post subject: Re: Alternator belt |
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| Yes, I definitely noticed some rubber residue on the inside of the pulley. Will check alignment as well. The current belt I just replaced is a Dayco 15430. Are these any good? |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 3:25 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator belt |
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| 1fin wrote: |
| Yes, I definitely noticed some rubber residue on the inside of the pulley. Will check alignment as well. The current belt I just replaced is a Dayco 15430. Are these any good? |
Dayco top cog belts are one of the best out there in my opinion. |
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86scotty
Samba Member
Joined: July 25, 2013
Posts: 223
Location: Tennessee
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:33 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator belt |
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I'm dealing with the same thing. I just swapped alternators because I thought mine was shot. It looked original, a Bosch. It looked totaled and I had a squealing belt so I thought I would just swap the part. I kept the old. After about 300 miles my new Contitech belt (1100?) is squealing.
Does anyone have a part number for the proper Gatorback belt or one superior to the Contitech 1100 that everyone sells for these vans?
I did swap the pulley because the one that came on my alternator was completely wrong but all was well for awhile. I have do black dust or residue. Belt rides true. It seemed tight. 
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86 Vanagon Westfalia 87k
1998 Ford E350 4x4 camper build
Vans flip flops |
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AtlasShrugged
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2008
Posts: 1605
Location: Decatur, Ga. USA
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 8:08 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator belt |
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Gatorback belts I used on my 2.1..they have been working just fine for years now. Only needed a few adjustments
Don't know if they are the same on a 1.9
A/C belt 17456
WP/Alt belt 15440
PS belt 15430 |
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Chainsaw
Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2015
Posts: 249
Location: Issaquah Washington
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 8:20 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator belt |
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Replace the pulley.
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89 Westy. 2wd. Manual. |
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86scotty
Samba Member
Joined: July 25, 2013
Posts: 223
Location: Tennessee
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:24 am Post subject: Re: Alternator belt |
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Thanks for the numbers Atlas. To my surprise mine was just VERY loose. I haven't had a belt stretch or get loose like this ever. I've never been accused of leaving a bolt loose but I have snapped a few hundred of them, so I doubt it was the bolts.
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86 Vanagon Westfalia 87k
1998 Ford E350 4x4 camper build
Vans flip flops |
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AtlasShrugged
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2008
Posts: 1605
Location: Decatur, Ga. USA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:12 am Post subject: Re: Alternator belt |
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| Like many aftermarket parts..the quality has really declined..our Vanagon belts have been a problem |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:27 am Post subject: Re: Alternator belt |
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Dayco Top Cog in action. Haven't put a lot of miles on this since installing it several years ago, but I don't think I have had to tighten it since the initial install.
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IdahoDoug
Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2010
Posts: 10251
Location: N. Idaho
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:34 am Post subject: Re: Alternator belt |
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86Scotty,
To be clear, the suggestion to clean and check things with a bright light has nothing to do with loose bolts, but with the possibility there is a crack in the mount, the block it bolts to, or elsewhere. The 2.1 is known for alternator bracket/block mount cracking.
Doug
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
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porterbrown
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2005
Posts: 718
Location: Bentonville, AR
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:50 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator belt |
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I got sick of replacing alt belts that continued to stretch beyond the adjustable limits of the brakes. Finally put a belt on that's the same size as the power steering pump belt since it's a bit smaller in size. It fits fine--has stretched a little but still within the limits of adjustability.
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'90 Westfalia GL Automatic |
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86scotty
Samba Member
Joined: July 25, 2013
Posts: 223
Location: Tennessee
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 5:49 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator belt |
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| IdahoDoug wrote: |
86Scotty,
To be clear, the suggestion to clean and check things with a bright light has nothing to do with loose bolts, but with the possibility there is a crack in the mount, the block it bolts to, or elsewhere. The 2.1 is known for alternator bracket/block mount cracking.
Doug |
Thanks Doug. I wrench on a lot of vehicles and am always watching out for stuff like that. I haven't seen anything out of the ordinary on mine but will definitely investigate further if it loosens up again.
Cheers!
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86 Vanagon Westfalia 87k
1998 Ford E350 4x4 camper build
Vans flip flops |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:31 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator belt |
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| 86scotty wrote: |
| IdahoDoug wrote: |
86Scotty,
To be clear, the suggestion to clean and check things with a bright light has nothing to do with loose bolts, but with the possibility there is a crack in the mount, the block it bolts to, or elsewhere. The 2.1 is known for alternator bracket/block mount cracking.
Doug |
Thanks Doug. I wrench on a lot of vehicles and am always watching out for stuff like that. I haven't seen anything out of the ordinary on mine but will definitely investigate further if it loosens up again.
Cheers! |
With the engine off, just grab the alternator and using a lot of force try to move it around. You shouldn't notice any movement at all. |
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