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2 stage pumps vs single Q
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Led Zeppelin
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 8:14 pm    Post subject: 2 stage pumps vs single Q Reply with quote

Ive made my mind up and am either getting a 60 gal single or 2 stage pump 7 hp by craftsman... My only question is that the 2 stage puts out 9 SCFM at 90 psi while the single stage puts out 12 scfm... I thought 2 stage was better?
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Foxx
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2 stage is better,it compresses the air twice.
i've painted with both,what fits your budget is the best one pretty much.
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Led Zeppelin
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

they both do but the 2 stage has too low of a cfm rating.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i run a low pressure gun so it doesn't matter to me,
i turn it down just before the gun and paint.. up to you what you get and what you can afford.
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Mr. Bungle
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

imo, go with the one with the highest cfm rating. the more airflow, the better. certain tools need 9+ to run, so you wouldnt want to be stuck with a comp w/ a low cfm rating.

there must be a 2 stage available with a higher cfm rating, no?
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Led Zeppelin
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im sure but im trying to keep this project under 1000 bucks cause im only
16 i think ima go with the 60 gallon 2 cyl single stage 7hp crafstmen for $470
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

a compressor is a great place to start...but just so you are aware of what it all entails, here are some basic things that come to my mind that surprised me as i've been slowly setting up a paint booth in my garage:

realize that you will probably need to wire the garage for 220-230 volt (for the compressor) and will need room on the house circuit to add a 30 amp breaker...just because there is room in the circuit breaker box does not mean there is room for a high draw electrical component...you might want to consult the help of your dad or a family freind that knows AC electric circuits

you will also want to consider a piping system or at least a high quality water/oil filter to minimize the amount of water in your lines...especially in humid North Carolina...Piping about $60+ and the filter $20 (for harbor freight big canister filter) or $60 for a motorgaurd "toilet paper" filter or $80 for the devilbiss "big one"

also figure $60-$130 for medium quality spray gun and regulator

also figure $25-$50 in sandpaper

also figure $50-$100 for garage paint booth (unless you have a non-scrupulous outdoor location to spray)

also figure about $80 for saftey equipment ( a Charcoal canistered VOC rated respirator at a minimum, and some eye protection, gloves and painter's overalls

also figure about $50 on masking tape/paper/tack rags

also figure $400 to $600 for precleaning treatment, economical acrylic eurathane paint, primer, and sealer.... see your local paint shop for prices/recomendations...
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Led Zeppelin
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah i thought about a lot of that.

My dads good friend is an electrician so that shouldnt be a problem.

I have talked to a local jobber and he said he doesnt get any water in his running it straight through the hose... I think im going to run a foot or two of piping with a water trap and a disposable filter.

As far as the paint booth goes I was thinking of making a make-shift one with
2x4s and plastic guarden covering or greenhouse pannels. What are you using as a paintbooth? I cant use my garage its attached to my house and i have pet birds plus there is a pooltable in the way.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i am going to hang plastic sheets in my attached garage and use some hvac filters under the garage door, thin OSB (press board) on the floor and exhaust fans out the rear door of my garage...i will wet floor before i i paint to minimize dust getting kicked up...

whatever you do, you want to create a sterile and dust free environment...
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buguy
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amyone that tells you that they dont get water in the line without running a filter is crazy. Water will be your biggest enemy. I have a 3 stage Sharpe drier system, and it barely does enough. Also a single stage compressor will generate more heat, thus causing more moisture in the line. I would at least get a good filter, and an attach-at-the-gun throw-away type filter, put a fan pointing at the compressor to keep it as cool as possible....and pray that it is enough. Good luck! Post pics after your done, cant get enough of do it yourself paint jobs.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I definatly will as soon as i start its going to be a few months still.

When running the piping should i use just normal water copper piping with solder or should i use threaded copper piping with locklight or should i use threaded with solder?
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2-Stage compressors are best for painting, because when they kick on to regenerate there won't be a drop in pressure; whereas with a single stage compressor there will be a drop in pressure since every stroke is used to rebuild pressure. That's something you don't want to have happen in the middle of painting the side of a Bus, a door, hood, etc. If you're going to be doing much paint work down the road, go with a 2-stage compressor.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

a thread on piping:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=65610
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So did you end up using black piping? What exactly is this, just regular steel piping? Can you get it already threaded?
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah...black pipe...it is available precut to different lengths and it comes pre threaded from just about every hardware mega store out there...you just bolt it all together...it will rust over time, which is a big disadvantage...they also make a galvanized type of pipeing, but the galvinization can chip off, so it is a worse choice....the right type of copper pipe would be ideal, but its alot of work to get right and more expensive...

i am following the website picture...not going to think too hard about it...i will have about 25' of 3/4" pipe before i step it down to 1/2" pipe where i drop down for my filters/hvlp gun hookup...i will also make a second 1/2" drop for my airtools (i currently run a 3/8" flex hose to a harbor freight filter/watertrap to my tools...it works, but i occasionally will notice a little water vapor in the air exhaust from the tools (bad for the tools)
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 5:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

what kind of compressor are you running?
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

compressor:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=3848

the website is wrong on the HP...it is 6.5HP 220v electric...

i bought a blemished unit for $328 which was advertised on the same website...harbor freight charges only $7 for shipping! and no tax (even though their is a harbor freight store in town...first time i've seen that happen)....bought it last october
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I might go with a kobalt 135 max psi 60 gal not sure if its single or double stage though it didnt say and i cant find it online. It puts out around 15 cfm at 40 psi! its $550

Also I think i am going to go with 1/2" galvanized piping and at the end of the piping run a "toilette paper" filter (its like $80) and then striaght to a half
inch 50 ft tube. I need to do some measuring to see if 50 ft is enough. And im probably going to run the piping somewhere outside through the brick as well and probably pout a small disposable filter at it.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

heres a crappy diagram i drew. I know its not much piping but i think itll do
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.




Should I locktite the threads or solder the outside of the fittings along the edges?


I was just searchin harbor's tools and came across this... http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=1118 Which would be better that or an 80 dollar tiolette paper roll style filter?
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

as far as filters, i think you get what you pay for...no experience with either filter, though...as far as piping, i don't think you will get much of any benefit from 7' of pipe...and galvanized is a poor choice...black steel would be better because the galvanized tends to flake apart inside the pipe under air pressure....teflon tape should be alright on the threads of steel pipe....

chubber wrote in that linked thread above: When painting when we want to get all of the water out of the air we hook up a 50 foot hose to the compressor and lay it in a big bucket of cold water, then to the plastic pipe. That helps remove water. From the pipe it goes into a "portable" air tank for pressure regulation, then in a short hose to the inline dryer and small regulator on the gun. Nothing expensive, mostly harbor freight quality stuff, but it really conditions the air.

you might PM him to get more details...especcially if this is a one time setup....sounds like he used the harbor freight filter, too....
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