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slow&low
Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2004
Posts: 129
Location: phx.az
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 Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Hide Away is the only one that is quiet. quiet enough to have a conversation anyway. |
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sconord
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005
Posts: 704
Location: Dallas Texas
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:10 am Post subject: |
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| slow&low wrote: |
| [size=18][/size Hide Away is the only one that is quiet. quiet enough to have a conversation anyway. |
Who makes it? Brand, model, etc...
THanks,
Stan
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| beatleeater wrote: |
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Jeff Geisen
Samba Chaplain
Joined: December 21, 2004
Posts: 1881
Location: N.W. Georgia
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 6:13 am Post subject: |
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| Hide away mufflers are available from a mutitude of suppliers. I bought one because I was tired of the droning sound I got from performance mufflers, tried 'em all. I really did not want the bulk and hanging effect of a single or dual quiet pack, I wanted the clean look of a hide away. I drive an early bay window bus with a moustache bar, so a hide away would not bolt up. I bought a thick, flanged ceramic coated header, and a hide away muffler. Bolted up the header, and a quiet pack, and drove to the local muffler shop. Had them cut & reweld the exahust pipe to clear the bar, and then exit in front of the right rear wheel. Then I had the muffler and tail pipe assy. ceramic coated. I do have to drop it at the collector, and remove the bolt from the middle hanger to adjust the #1 & 2 valves though. I f you decide to run the quietest, cleanest looking muffler, I suggest a hide away set up. I will also suggest a copper collector gasket so it can be re-used after valve adjustments! |
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mharney
Samba Member
Joined: June 01, 2002
Posts: 8353
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 6:17 am Post subject: |
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| I hear the sidewinder setup is pretty quiet and doesn't kill horsepower. I might try that next. |
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Turin39789
Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2004
Posts: 155
Location: Lexington, Ky
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 11:41 am Post subject: |
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| I noticed that aircooled has a hideaway for a merged header, would this work well on a mild 1915 with a single weber 44? what header would work well with this? |
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Flat4Tom
Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2005
Posts: 443
Location: Kingsport TN
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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| aussie01 wrote: |
this is the sidewinder exhaust Alan was talking about |
Where can I find this exhaust setup to buy??
Thanks,
Tom
_________________
'69 Fastback - automatic - 'Flamer'
| MEANIRISHMOFO wrote: |
| The whole Patina thing has gone way too far. A beat up piece of shit does not have patina. It's a beat up piece of shit. That car is a good base for a restoration, Not a coat of wax. |
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Billet_Bus
Samba Member
Joined: August 17, 2003
Posts: 347
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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thats a sidewinder
A-1 Muffler
Custom performance Exhaust Systems
721 South Main St
Santa Ana, California
92701, U.S.A.
Contact: Manuel "Tiger" Vasquez
714-836-7201
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Anything else is just half fast.
CTD Fabrication |
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sconord
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005
Posts: 704
Location: Dallas Texas
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sconord
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005
Posts: 704
Location: Dallas Texas
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| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 4:42 am Post subject: |
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I am trying the Empi two tip on my 1914. A little restrictive, but alot quieter than the "Quiet Packs"
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| beatleeater wrote: |
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Rome
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2004
Posts: 9640
Location: Pearl River, NY
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| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:43 am Post subject: |
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Lots of interesting input. As some of us get older (DonJ and myself in our low '40's) we appreciate a more civil noise level inside and outside of the car. I've heard the hide-away that Don mentions on his Beetle in person, which has a larger-valve dual carb'ed stroker engine. When he first fired the car up, I could not believe how quiet it was.
On my '77 Beetle with 1 3/8' header and mild stock-valve 2-liter, I have changed over from a hide-away, to a single QP and a dual QP. The hide-away system for a 1 3/8" header is different than the one for Don's car with the larger diameter header, as the larger header type sits FLAT parallel to the ground, and the one I have (1 3/8") is angled upwards in the right fenderwell.
When idling, the hide-away was definitely the quietest, with single QP (acceptable) and dual QP (OK at idle) next.
On my Ghia with a 1914cc dual carbe'd engine and 1 3/8" header, its single QP muffler is quieter while idling and definitely while driving than the single QP on my Beetle.
What kind of ca do you have?
You might be able to tell by now that the length of the pipes before and afte the muffler make a big difference in system noise level. Exhaust pulsations get dampened more by a longer pipe, and at certain rpms, those pulsations either "double up" or "cancel out" within the pipes. Cutting a pipe off at a point where the pulses cancel out results in a much quieter system, for that specific rpm.
The BAS system is well done since the single exhaust flows thru TWO mufflers, I think...
If you have a nearly-stock engine or at least a mild one that uses stock-valve heads, you will do fine with a 1 3/8" header system. If you have a Ghia, there are headers available (GeneBerg, for instance) which raise the muffler up slightly off the ground for more ground clearance than a generic "type 1" header. You can tell such a muffler by the positioning of the muffler flange triangle. |
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mr matt
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2005
Posts: 819
Location: southeast Pa
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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Have you tried the dual Quiet Pack? I've heard a few say dual QP are 2x as loud as 1 QP. Was wondering what your opinion was
Matt
| bugnut68 wrote: |
| I've got a 1776 with mild ported and polished heads, Engle 100 cam, dual Kadrons, 7.8:1 compression and an S&S Header with single Quiet Pack. It sounds really good, yet my coworkers still tell me the car is loud...but quiet packs are about as quiet as you can get. Compared to the Phat Boy muffler the QP is much more quiet...kind of a mellow low frequency sound whereas dual QPs have a nice throaty hush when you get on the throttle. |
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bugnut68
Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2003
Posts: 4180
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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| mr matt wrote: |
Have you tried the dual Quiet Pack? I've heard a few say dual QP are 2x as loud as 1 QP. Was wondering what your opinion was
Matt
| bugnut68 wrote: |
| I've got a 1776 with mild ported and polished heads, Engle 100 cam, dual Kadrons, 7.8:1 compression and an S&S Header with single Quiet Pack. It sounds really good, yet my coworkers still tell me the car is loud...but quiet packs are about as quiet as you can get. Compared to the Phat Boy muffler the QP is much more quiet...kind of a mellow low frequency sound whereas dual QPs have a nice throaty hush when you get on the throttle. |
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I had Bugpack dual quiet packs on my first car, a '59 Bug with a 1641 engine with dual 34 ICTs. Wasn't that loud, really. The car had little to no insulation in the interior, though, so my car wasn't the best to benchmark it from...Twice as loud? That's BS, if you ask me. Duals are louder, however, by a slight margin if you run them on a stock motor. This is due to the fact that they slow down the exhaust gas velocity to the point where the mufflers can't do their job. If you have an engine with some headwork, cam, and dual carbs, then dual QPs work much better and also make more power. |
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Chris W
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2003
Posts: 267
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:32 am Post subject: |
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My hideaway is very quiet.
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JBenziger
Samba Member
Joined: August 31, 2006
Posts: 18
Location: the Valley, CA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:24 am Post subject: |
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| Does anybody know how loud the Euro-Sport 2-Tip system is? I'm making my rear apron removable and customizing the bug to make it extremely easy to remove the engine. The larger systems seem like they'd be a pain in the neck to remove with the engine. The eurosport exhaust looks simple and gives the stock look. Ultimately I don't want it very loud or bulky. Any thoughts? |
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OTO X58
Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2004
Posts: 3101
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:42 am Post subject: |
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| JBenziger wrote: |
| Does anybody know how loud the Euro-Sport 2-Tip system is? I'm making my rear apron removable and customizing the bug to make it extremely easy to remove the engine. The larger systems seem like they'd be a pain in the neck to remove with the engine. The eurosport exhaust looks simple and gives the stock look. Ultimately I don't want it very loud or bulky. Any thoughts? |
have you got a picture of the system you're talking about?
The euro-tuck with the two glasspacks is really loud and annoying. I'm not sure if that is what you are talking about though.
_________________
-Thomas
RIP HBB 10.10.84 - 12.25.09
1958 Ragtop Bug Build - Subaru Swap!
1957 Gazelle Beige Ghia FOR SALE
1957 Dove Blue Kombi field find |
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67jason
Samba Member
Joined: August 28, 2005
Posts: 4741
Location: behind my back feet - Pittsburg CA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:24 am Post subject: |
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| JBenziger wrote: |
| Does anybody know how loud the Euro-Sport 2-Tip system is? I'm making my rear apron removable and customizing the bug to make it extremely easy to remove the engine. The larger systems seem like they'd be a pain in the neck to remove with the engine. The eurosport exhaust looks simple and gives the stock look. Ultimately I don't want it very loud or bulky. Any thoughts? |
you talking 'bout this one?
if so, its not too loud but it doesnt flow worth a shit and probably hurts performance rather then increasing it.
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67 ghia
64 bug |
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MURZI
Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2005
Posts: 5063
Location: Madisonville, La
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:21 am Post subject: |
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I have the above system and I can tell you it sounds awesome FROM BEHIND THE CAR, but in the car it is booming loud. Seriously it does sound "British sports carish" from about 30 feet away. too loud for my taste but I did have a QP on there before.
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2276
Tim’s welded heads
45 Dells
A1 sidewinder
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JBenziger
Samba Member
Joined: August 31, 2006
Posts: 18
Location: the Valley, CA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| 67jason wrote: |
| JBenziger wrote: |
| Does anybody know how loud the Euro-Sport 2-Tip system is? I'm making my rear apron removable and customizing the bug to make it extremely easy to remove the engine. The larger systems seem like they'd be a pain in the neck to remove with the engine. The eurosport exhaust looks simple and gives the stock look. Ultimately I don't want it very loud or bulky. Any thoughts? |
you talking 'bout this one?
if so, its not too loud but it doesnt flow worth a shit and probably hurts performance rather then increasing it. |
Yes, this is the one. How can you tell how an exhaust affects performance? I was reading the Muir book chapter on performance and all he mentions is that you can get an extractor w/J tubes and it'll help keep the engine cooler. First, I don't really see how J-tubes would be any better than heat exchangers considering it is basically a j-tube with an air tank around it. And secondly, The euro tip looks like it would allow exhaust to exit sooner. The pipes are short and curvy.
Anyways, if it sounds loud in the cabin what type of rattle and road noise deadeners are in your VW? I'm thinking of spending some serious money on Dynamat & Dynamat Xtreme. Also, Is there any noise difference between painted and ceramic coated mufflers? My last VW was really really loud. It had a painted four tip extractor, so I'm definitely getting a quiet muffler. Any thoughts? |
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74 Thing
Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2004
Posts: 7390
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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That muffler is not 4 into 1 like a header so it does not assist removing exhaust gasses like a header and single qp.
J tubes have a larger id then the stock heaterboxes-thats why they flow better. |
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OTO X58
Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2004
Posts: 3101
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| JBenziger wrote: |
| First, I don't really see how J-tubes would be any better than heat exchangers considering it is basically a j-tube with an air tank around it. |
It is not a j-tube with a tank around it. Have you ever taken a heaterbox apart before? There are aluminum fins molded to the exhaust tube, which act like heat sinks, so that the air being pushed through the heaterbox has more surface area to warm it up. So since they are heat sinks, the heaterbox gets hot and stays hot, which will transfer heat onto the head through conduction.
| JBenziger wrote: |
And secondly, The euro tip looks like it would allow exhaust to exit sooner. The pipes are short and curvy. |
Exiting sooner has nothing to do with performance. That muffler is just a glasspack with pipes welded into the side of it. Glasspacks are restrictive by nature, just in their design. The air is forced through small holes, and has to make a sharp 90 degree turn to exit out the pipes. Not to mention, the primaries are not equal length, so there is no scavenging happening whatsoever.
| JBenziger wrote: |
Anyways, if it sounds loud in the cabin what type of rattle and road noise deadeners are in your VW? I'm thinking of spending some serious money on Dynamat & Dynamat Xtreme. |
Bugs are loud, no matter what you do. That dynamat will help, but just be sure and understand that your bug will never be as quiet as your mother's honda minivan. Even with 1000 dollars worth of dynamat and all new weatherstripping, you're always going to hear that mechanical sound coming from the valves, and your'e always going to hear the wind passing across that blunt windshield.
One more thing, you really shouldnt' read the Muir book for performance tips. That book is great for hippie fixes, and it is very entertaining, but it's not a technical handbook. Read some threads in the engine and performance section of this site and you'll get better info. than you ever would in the Muir book.
_________________
-Thomas
RIP HBB 10.10.84 - 12.25.09
1958 Ragtop Bug Build - Subaru Swap!
1957 Gazelle Beige Ghia FOR SALE
1957 Dove Blue Kombi field find |
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