Where and how to mount an external oil cooler on a Bus

Andrew · Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 8:52 pm Post subject:

Back on the topic of the engine, though. If you're very concerned about the temp of the engine, you may want to consider trying the Type 1 DTM.

http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/type1/dtm/index.htm
http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/store/product.php?productid=16133&cat=250&page=1
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Clara · Samba Member Joined: June 14, 2003 Posts: 12400

The smaller gen pulley also works well, and is not ugly like scoops.

I was running a smaller pulley on my 65 westy, and it ran too cool in winter here (when it froze at night) so I pulled it off and put a regular one on, and the bus was happier. I couldn't find that pulley last summer. Crying or Very sad

Myself I prefer to keep temps below 225F. Actually I like to keep it 170 to 210, so if I start to get warmer I can back it off. Guess I'm a conservative driver, usually that is. Touch wood.

Wanted to compare the smaller gen pulley during my tests, but unfortunately it didn't happen.

I really see a lack of solid data out there on these different systems.
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3 type2's · Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 10:12 pm Post subject:

Hi, I generally don't post very often, as there are people here with a great deal of knowledge. In my personal experience, I was able to cool the heads and in turn the oil by simply removing the front firewall seal! I measured the head temps with an "infrared" temperature gun and there was a dramatic drop in temps (50 degrees). The sump plate went from 190 degrees to 170 degrees -- this is not actual oil temp as there is a difference between the oil and external sump surface. In the fall I just slide it back in from the bottom in two pieces to help keep the engine at optimal running temperature. In the late spring I remove it for the summer. The trade off is some very small amount of road debris in the engine compartment. The engine in question is a 1600 with mild port and polish to the heads, 9.0 to 1 compression, 110 cam, 30 pict 1 carb, in a stock height '67 kombi. I drive this bus year round with virtually no problems. Good luck, Jeff.

VWBobby · Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 10:24 pm Post subject:

Its safe to let your oil get in the 210-230 degree range. Actually its good to bring it up above 210 ocassionaly because you can boil the water out of the oil (causes that nasty brown foam).

As long as you don't use cheap oil, almost all oils can withstand 400+ degrees F. Look for the "Flash point" spec on the oil. This is the point where the oil begins to combust and loses its ability to lubricate. Learn more about oil on www.bobistheoilguy.com

Yes a 20W50 is technically more stable at tempatures (since its the equivilant of a 50 weight at temp) but a good engine shouldn't need oil that thick. My engine has a 30mm oil pump, puts out well over 80PSI when its cold, around 40 hot. If you were running in texas heat, then a 20W50 would be fine, probably.

Get a Head Temp Guage!!!! The oil temp is only half of the equation. I'd only be alarmed when the head temps get around 380-400 degrees otherwise your oil will be fine up to around 230 degrees F. You're most likely to do damage going up a steep mountain pass or bucking a headwind then to just be cruising along at 70MPH. I've driven at 75+ with a Superbeetle for a couple of hours before the engine started showing signs of stress. This is up and down hills BTW. It was an unknown engine that I didn't do any work to besides timing and valve adjustment. An engine with known history is much more trustworthy.
-Bobby

Eric&Barb · Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 7:23 am Post subject:

DannoT · Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:13 pm Post subject:

I know this is an old thread but i thought I would dig it up for some more advice. Ive been doing allot of research on the oil cooler topic and have decided to install a setup. I have a full flow berg oil pump on a 1914 engine with all the correct tin, type IV doghouse cooler, 1.5qt external sump and I cleaned out the castings from the heads when the engine was built. Ive put about 32k on the engine with this setup and in the summer the head temps are usually a little high and the oil is about 210-220 which is normally fine but I'm going to be pulling a light trailer through the desert this summer so I want to be safe by cooling the oil down some more. What I plan to install is a 1.5qt cooler with a oil thermostat valve and the cb remote oil filter adapter. What I would like to know is if there are any flaws in my plans and also where is a good place to mount the cooler and filter adapter. And as always thanks for all the advice and input Smile

Eric&Barb · Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:00 am Post subject:

What size cooling fan?

Got 356 Porsche gen/alt pulley?

Do you have the foam rubber over the oil cooler?

Running FI DH shroud with velocity ring?

Crank pulley DH size and not earlier smaller one?

Air/fuel mixture gauge? If so are you running a bit too lean??

What RPM for cruising?

Post an image of the engine please.

Before going to external cooler would look into the above and try towing the trailer to see if it really makes an increase in oil temp.
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DannoT · Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:51 pm Post subject:

Ok here's what Ive got
36mm welded fan
Stock alternator pulley
Foam rubber is over the cooler
Standard dh shroud
dh pulley
No air fuel mixture gauge but the carbs are well tuned and operating well
With free way flyer I cruise at 4000rpms at 70mph but this is because I opted for a shorter 4th so I could maintain power on hills being in the rocky mountains most of the time.
Ive already got the parts for the cooler install, I would just like to get a few second opinions on setup and placement, its no longer a question of should but how lol.
ps. I have heard that putting a smaller pulley on a larger alternator can over wind the alternator and wear out the brushes and bearings, any truth to this rumor?

Eric&Barb · Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:59 pm Post subject:

DannoT · Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:15 pm Post subject:

Ill take a look at the carbs jetting and and mixture before I go on the trip, my thought on the cooler is it will maintain the oil temp better and in turn soak up more heat from the heads when driving under load in the heat. Im also looking in to other ideas on cooling the heads, Clara mentioned the scoops can help cool the heads and since my bus got drilled for them back in the seventies Rolling Eyes

I figure they couldn't hurt to put on too.

DannoT · Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:31 pm Post subject:

Also Id'e like to thank Eric and barb for the input on this subject Ive read hundreds of useful posts by you while researching bus stuff over the years.

Eric&Barb · Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:30 pm Post subject:

No problem!
Please do keep us all posted on how it goes.
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Eric&Barb · Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:07 pm Post subject:

BTW have you made sure your oil temp gauge is calibrated?
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DannoT · Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:17 pm Post subject:

I use a digital probe thermometer that's pretty accurate to check the oil temp and a infrared thermometer to check my head temps. Ill let you know how the install goes along with some temp readings to see how well it works.

DannoT · Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:31 pm Post subject:

Ok, It took a while between work and life its hard to squeeze a few hours a week in to the project but after about a month I put together the external oil cooling system. I ran about 9ft total of -10 oil lines, I used a total of 10 anodized fittings in the system, made 4 custom 18 gauge brackets for the oil filter, thermostat valve, and oil cooler all with out drilling a single hole in the bus. Now my oil temp is staying right in the target range of 180 to 200 degrees, I did manage to get the temp to rise to about 210 on a 85 degree day after hauling 5 passengers up a steep portion of hwy285 which is called the canyon and has been known to over heat many cars trying to maintain speed up it.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Jerry · Samba Member Joined: October 28, 2007 Posts: 1367

Can you give us some feedback on your cooler setup? Just wondering how everything worked out blocking 1/2 the incoming air for the engine.
If this works, this is one I would consider doing.
Thank you for sharing.
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Sniperx · Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:18 pm Post subject:

Just a thought...

It looks like your using the stock VW fan to pull air through the vent and across your oil cooler. Theres a few problems here. 1. Your restricting the airflow by blocking the vent. It may not be fully blocked, but it is more covered now than before. 2. You are now pulling preheated air into your main cooling system which should be pulling "pure" "cold" air from the outside and blowing it over your heads. 3. By introducing a restriction on that vent, the air then looks for the path of least resistance and is pulled through the other vent instead of across your oil cooler. Granted SOME will still move by it....its not doing exactly what you are looking for.

Remember....the heat in your oil came from your engine. By putting the cooler in teh engine and in it "coolant" you are essentially putting that heat BACK into your motor.

I had a setup on a SCAB where the cooler was in the battery box pulling from behind the wheel. I used the same VW fan idea you were. I regularly ran 350-400 (400 if I pushed it on the highway) after switching to external I now peak at 350 going up huge grades in 4th with a FF trans.

mg6770 · Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:16 am Post subject:

Scorcho

The engine that came with my bus had an external oil cooler but no oil cooler inside the fan housing or the mechanism/rod up in front of the housing that opens the flaps/rings. Do those need to be removed when putting an external oil cooler or do i need find those things and put them on?


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Where and how to mount an external oil cooler on a Bus
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