Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Best case sealant-Aviation Permatex or Yamabond
Forum Index -> Performance - Engines/Transmissions Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
PHAT4
Samba Member


Joined: March 12, 2005
Posts: 237

PHAT4 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 11:15 am    Post subject: Best case sealant-Aviation Permatex or Yamabond Reply with quote

I know about Permatex Aviation 2H.

I was at my machinists and asked him if the Permatex was the best thing to use.He replied it is good but there is something better.
It's called Yamabond.

You guessed available through Yamaha.After a bit of research I found plenty of positive feebdack for this product.The only problem is which one to use.If you look here you can see there are many different formulas to chose from.
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outboard/apparel/apsubcontaineritems/3/123/801/1/detail.aspx

Also I read that it is made for them by 3M.Apparently they also make it for other manufacturers like Suzuki(Sazukibond) and Ducati(Ducatibond).
Though I can't even find it listed on the net, I guess 3M also sells the same product under their own label but I don't know the name.It would probably be cheaper getting it this way.

Anyone use this stuff, what do you think of it?

I know about Hylomar but I think Aviation Permatex probably has it beat.


Last edited by PHAT4 on Fri May 20, 2005 12:12 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
BattleShipBus
Samba Member


Joined: February 10, 2005
Posts: 172

BattleShipBus is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yamabond 4 or Threebond 1104 is the same sealant and excellent.

If you can find it Threebond makes a sealant 1 stedp better called 1211

Apply sparingly to one half and left it flash for 1-2 minutes and then assemble. You will NEVER have case leaks.
_________________
Andy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
PHAT4
Samba Member


Joined: March 12, 2005
Posts: 237

PHAT4 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Threebond...Yea that's the stuff I thought was made by 3M.

This the right stuff?
http://www.naturecoastmotorsports.com/eshopprod_ca...T_1104.htm

http://www.naturecoastmotorsports.com/eshopprod_ca...D_GASK.htm

Is there any easy place to get that stuff other than a cycle repair center/dealership??

When you rebuild what do you clean it off the case with?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
wheel607
Samba Member


Joined: May 30, 2004
Posts: 752

wheel607 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anyone still using Gasgacinch??
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
fastback1971
Samba Drummer


Joined: January 02, 2005
Posts: 244
Location: Tri-Cities
fastback1971 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In aviation we use a 2-part sealant called pro-seal. Messy stuff but it seals great. Better than any pre-mixed tube stuff. Ive also heard Dave Kawell uses(used?) the sealer G.M. uses on their cars. He said it was great. I havent used it though.
_________________
I refuse to tiptoe through life, only to arrive safely at death.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
PHAT4
Samba Member


Joined: March 12, 2005
Posts: 237

PHAT4 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fastback1971 wrote:


Ive also heard Dave Kawell uses(used?) the sealer G.M. uses on their cars. He said it was great. I havent used it though.


You talking about the black stuff?
GMS I think they call it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
fastback1971
Samba Drummer


Joined: January 02, 2005
Posts: 244
Location: Tri-Cities
fastback1971 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im not really sure. I talked at length with Dave and he mentioned it as he was talking. I cant tell you much about it. Call him. As for the pro-seal, its black, after you mix it. Two parts, white and black, smells like rotten eggs. Good stuff though, works on 300mph airplanes.
_________________
I refuse to tiptoe through life, only to arrive safely at death.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Jake Raby
Samba Member


Joined: August 23, 2003
Posts: 7196
Location: Aircooled Heaven USA
Jake Raby is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use Curil K2 for cases... And a piece of waked dental floss across the bottom part of the sump area.. Even without sealant it won't leak with this trick.
_________________
Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
PHAT4
Samba Member


Joined: March 12, 2005
Posts: 237

PHAT4 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Waked dental floss across the bottom part of the sump area?

You mean just sandwiched between the two?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Jake Raby
Samba Member


Joined: August 23, 2003
Posts: 7196
Location: Aircooled Heaven USA
Jake Raby is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

opps.. WAXED floss..
Yes, right between the case halves- it compresses to less than .001 when you torque it up.

Smile thats an old pratt and whitney trick from long ago..
_________________
Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
PHAT4
Samba Member


Joined: March 12, 2005
Posts: 237

PHAT4 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing Gotcha
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
nsracing Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: November 16, 2003
Posts: 5931
Location: NORTHERN VIRGINIA
nsracing is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 9:16 pm    Post subject: dental floss? Reply with quote

So a piece of dental floss?

I tore a Type IV motor apart once before with a piece of some kind of thread stuck between the pan...and I said WTF?

It was not completely squashed. So if the thread is around 0.001 inch thickness, that means the case is actually warped to the "NEW" flatness. Assuming of course the case was flat to begin with.

YOu can see daylight through 0.001 inch gap.

The case halves are machined so nicely from factory that all is needed is some Aviation goop to fill the minute scratches from the toolbits passes. I mean you cannot even see the scratches sometimes they are that good. The Aviation goop you can squash to nothing and seal without warping the part.

If you put a thread on one end of two items that are flat, it is literally a wedge. And when you torque them down..middle and perimeter, all that is happening is bowing of the parts.

I would bet that after the case has been torqued with a thread for some time will have a gap equal to the dimension of the thread when you remove the thread.

Machine work on parts have evolved so advanced now that the tolerances are so awesome we can run 5W-30 oil and idle at 500 RPM on new cars.

Maybe out of necessity the thread was used to compensate for poor quality machining?

It is interesting.
_________________
Guilty of wind-doping.

All other info, lineboring or machine work, dynamic balancing, PM me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
JamesT
Samba Member


Joined: September 08, 2003
Posts: 598
Location: Parksville, BC, Canada
JamesT is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never had a problem with leaking at the case split and I just use a thin layer of permatex on each side. I've been told about the dental floss trick, but it's never seemed to be needed. I do see how it could end up warping the case, but that would only be a problem the next time you rebuild the motor.
_________________
-James T
1968 Karmann Ghia Coupe (long term project)
1970 Kombi (short term project)
1978 Rabbit C (weekend project/ daily)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
vwchaos
Samba Member


Joined: April 12, 2005
Posts: 6
Location: Nebraska
vwchaos is offline 

PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2005 8:42 am    Post subject: Best case sealant Reply with quote

I don’t how to define “best”, I have had fine results with Gasgacinch (sp) on a new case. I have also had fine results with “aviation” Permatex on used cases. The Permatex has also provided good results for several of my friends on their engines. The motor I am just finishing has Yamabond between the case, I have heard very good things about this product and wanted to try it myself. I was not aware of different Yamabonds; the product I used was light gray and quite thin. On the topic of using thread/floss between the cases, the information I have was from the web 4 or 5 years ago and went like this. Ex-aviation mechanic recalled a Lycome (sp) engine rebuild procedure. Using silk thread size “00” apply your sealer of choice, let tack lightly lay the thread along the case parting line above boltholes and studs. I have not tried this yet but will eventually. I am not real “up” on fabric stores so I spent around 3 hours finding real silk thread in “00” size. The clerk at the store sure thought I was crazy when I told her what I needed if for. Once I had the thread in the shop I measured it for “crush” and with a calibrated Starret micrometer the thread crushed to the point of no perceptible reading, no I wasn’t cranking down on the mic, the thread is that thin. I think the “thread/floss” method would work well using the correct size thread. I suggest using “common sense” talk to folks, see what they use and then go for it, just keep it thin and use it sparingly. Jake, since I learned of this from an aviation mechanic it does not surprise me to see you advocate this method.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
BattleShipBus
Samba Member


Joined: February 10, 2005
Posts: 172

BattleShipBus is offline 

PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2005 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gaskacinch of today is NOT the same formula of say 3 years ago. They changed the content to be more EPA friendly.

Yamaha today uses the 1211 formula for sealing metal to metal mating surfaces.

Most people use too much sealer when sealing cases. It simply needs a skim.

NEVER use a Yamabond 5!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yamabond 4, Threebond 1104, Honda 4, Kawasaki semi sealer and Suzuki sealant are all the same.

I would never use a rvt style sealer as it is just too thick for the tolerance you are trying to seal. All you need to do is fill the miniscule imperfections.
_________________
Andy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
earthmuffin
Samba Worm Farmer


Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 1542
Location: In the shower..........peeing!
earthmuffin is offline 

PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2005 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 00 silk thread that is used on aircraft engines is applied all the way around the case so there is no chance of case warpage. It is not used as a crutch for poor machining, but rather just a backup for the sealant. actually Lycoming and Continental cases are machined to pretty tight standards. I think they are a lot better quality than any VW case I've seen.

I personally would never use proseal on a case. It is TOO good. If you ever have to perform an overhaul, you'll spend days picking that stuff off the case.
_________________
This thread SUCKS!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Performance - Engines/Transmissions All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2013, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB