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need to rebuild 1300 can I swap in 1600 piston/cylinders?
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Augiedoggy
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2023 5:44 pm    Post subject: need to rebuild 1300 can I swap in 1600 piston/cylinders? Reply with quote

Just weighing options for my 66.. I believe it's the original engine. Block is an f0 block. I just bought the car. Plugs were fouled and it smokes on acceleration.
If I do decide to go with 1600 pistons will the carb just need rejetting or will I need the 34 pict carb? What else would I have to address? Will the tin still fit?
Thanks.
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Rome
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2023 6:16 pm    Post subject: Re: need to rebuild 1300 can I swap in 1600 piston/cylinders? Reply with quote

The 1600's 85.5 mm pistons and cylinders will fit into your F engine case without modification. But the outer/head ends of those cylinders have a larger diameter than the 77 mm from the 1300 engine. You'll need to have your 1300 heads bored to the larger diameter of the 85.5's. And since you'll have the heads off and likely well cleaned in preparation for the machine work, replace the exhaust valves with new ones. Also check each valve guide for excessive wear which would let the valve stems "wobble" too much, especially the exhaust valve guide because it is exposed to much higher heat (exhaust gases) compared to the intakes.

Finally, check the heads for cracks either between the valve seats, and between the seats and the spark plug threads.

Your 1300 cylinder tins should fit, since the overall length of the 1300 cylinders and those of the 1600 "should" be exactly the same.

As to the carburetor, a 1600 single-port engine (1970 model year) came with a 30 PICT-3 carb. So your own 30 PICT-1 will work, though you'll probably need a slightly larger main jet such as the size which came on the '70's engine. The '70 Beetle carb had a 122.5 main jet and 24 mm venturi.

Make sure your intake manifold's preheat pipes are not blocked by decades of carbon. They need to be open inside to allow exhaust air to flow through them and heat the intake manifold neck below the carb. This prevents condensation from forming on the outside due to the temperature difference caused by the speed of the fuel/air mixture on the inside of the manifold compared to the higher ambient temperature. Condensation reduces the atomization of the mixture and the engine does not run nearly as well.
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Augiedoggy
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2023 7:10 pm    Post subject: Re: need to rebuild 1300 can I swap in 1600 piston/cylinders? Reply with quote

Rome wrote:
The 1600's 85.5 mm pistons and cylinders will fit into your F engine case without modification. But the outer/head ends of those cylinders have a larger diameter than the 77 mm from the 1300 engine. You'll need to have your 1300 heads bored to the larger diameter of the 85.5's. And since you'll have the heads off and likely well cleaned in preparation for the machine work, replace the exhaust valves with new ones. Also check each valve guide for excessive wear which would let the valve stems "wobble" too much, especially the exhaust valve guide because it is exposed to much higher heat (exhaust gases) compared to the intakes.

Finally, check the heads for cracks either between the valve seats, and between the seats and the spark plug threads.

Your 1300 cylinder tins should fit, since the overall length of the 1300 cylinders and those of the 1600 "should" be exactly the same.

As to the carburetor, a 1600 single-port engine (1970 model year) came with a 30 PICT-3 carb. So your own 30 PICT-1 will work, though you'll probably need a slightly larger main jet such as the size which came on the '70's engine. The '70 Beetle carb had a 122.5 main jet and 24 mm venturi.

Make sure your intake manifold's preheat pipes are not blocked by decades of carbon. They need to be open inside to allow exhaust air to flow through them and heat the intake manifold neck below the carb. This prevents condensation from forming on the outside due to the temperature difference caused by the speed of the fuel/air mixture on the inside of the manifold compared to the higher ambient temperature. Condensation reduces the atomization of the mixture and the engine does not run nearly as well.

Thank you...
If I decide not to go larger and just to freshen up what I have... would this work to just replace my existing components and use my stock heads?

https://aapistons.com/products/83x64mm-1200cc-40-h...Lb8ajJUHfw
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2023 8:13 pm    Post subject: Re: need to rebuild 1300 can I swap in 1600 piston/cylinders? Reply with quote

[quote="Augiedoggy"]
Rome wrote:
If I decide not to go larger and just to freshen up what I have... would this work to just replace my existing components and use my stock heads?

https://aapistons.com/products/83x64mm-1200cc-40-h...Lb8ajJUHfw

I'm pretty sure the answer is no.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2023 8:30 pm    Post subject: Re: need to rebuild 1300 can I swap in 1600 piston/cylinders? Reply with quote

Augiedoggy wrote:

Thank you...
If I decide not to go larger and just to freshen up what I have... would this work to just replace my existing components and use my stock heads?

https://aapistons.com/products/83x64mm-1200cc-40-h...Lb8ajJUHfw


No, the piston pins are different sizes
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Augiedoggy
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2023 4:38 am    Post subject: Re: need to rebuild 1300 can I swap in 1600 piston/cylinders? Reply with quote

Ok then this is a viable option from. What I've read , correct?

https://aapistons.com/products/vw-1600-single-port...Q-EALw_wcB
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2023 5:31 am    Post subject: Re: need to rebuild 1300 can I swap in 1600 piston/cylinders? Reply with quote

Inspect and measure your old pistons and cylinders for wear first before you buy anything. It's been my experience that due to the quality of the stock p/c sets they are good for at least one and often two re-ringing cycles.

The 1300 was the most durable, longest lasting engine the factory put out so save and re-use as many of those quality parts you can. The exception being, as mentioned, the exhaust valves. They are subject to a lot of heat.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2023 7:38 am    Post subject: Re: need to rebuild 1300 can I swap in 1600 piston/cylinders? Reply with quote

A few years ago when I had a '79 SB I used a '74 dual relief case on the bottom and 1300 pistons, cylinders, and heads on top. I chose the 1300 because stock specs said it revved higher and I was after increased MPG. It did do better than the 1600 but not by much. It also ran cooler than the stock 1300 probably because of the doghouse cooler.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2023 9:02 am    Post subject: Re: need to rebuild 1300 can I swap in 1600 piston/cylinders? Reply with quote

Augiedoggy wrote:
Ok then this is a viable option from. What I've read , correct?

https://aapistons.com/products/vw-1600-single-port...Q-EALw_wcB


yes

oprn wrote:
The 1300 was the most durable, longest lasting engine the factory put out


Bullshit. maybe until cam bearings came out
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2023 9:28 am    Post subject: Re: need to rebuild 1300 can I swap in 1600 piston/cylinders? Reply with quote

Erik G wrote:
Augiedoggy wrote:
Ok then this is a viable option from. What I've read , correct?

https://aapistons.com/products/vw-1600-single-port...Q-EALw_wcB


yes

oprn wrote:
The 1300 was the most durable, longest lasting engine the factory put out


Bullshit. maybe until cam bearings came out


Huh? The 1300 had cam bearings. The 1200 did not.
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Dan Ruddock
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2023 10:18 am    Post subject: Re: need to rebuild 1300 can I swap in 1600 piston/cylinders? Reply with quote

The last year of the 40hp had cam brg. Other than bore size the 1965 engine case was identical to the F and H case. D shaped oil filler hole and had the two ribs behind #3

Last edited by Dan Ruddock on Thu Jun 29, 2023 11:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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Augiedoggy
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2023 10:18 am    Post subject: Re: need to rebuild 1300 can I swap in 1600 piston/cylinders? Reply with quote

Ok ill check it out first.
I also found these..

https://www.vwnos.com/111-198-057-b
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2023 10:20 am    Post subject: Re: need to rebuild 1300 can I swap in 1600 piston/cylinders? Reply with quote

Dan Ruddock wrote:
The last year of the 40hp had cam brg. Other than bore size the 1965 engine case was identical to the H case. D shaped oil filler hole and had the two ribs behind #3
I have a 66 1300 just to be clear... EDIT, NEVERMIND I understand what your saying.
I also have a 64 1200 in the driveway but thats the girlfriends.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2023 11:24 am    Post subject: Re: need to rebuild 1300 can I swap in 1600 piston/cylinders? Reply with quote

Dan Ruddock wrote:
The last year of the 40hp had cam brg. Other than bore size the 1965 engine case was identical to the F and H case. D shaped oil filler hole and had the two ribs behind #3


my brain went straight to the 1500 with no bearings

I still call BS on the "1300 is the longest lasting" claims
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2023 11:58 am    Post subject: Re: need to rebuild 1300 can I swap in 1600 piston/cylinders? Reply with quote

The 1300 had thicker cylinder walls as well as having cam bearings so I can understand someone touting it. It was only made one year(1966) in the Beetle for those destined for the U.S. but continued elsewhere for several more years even being produced with the better dual relief case and doghouse oil cooler. The U.S. has always had to have larger displacements compared to the rest of the world.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2023 6:36 pm    Post subject: Re: need to rebuild 1300 can I swap in 1600 piston/cylinders? Reply with quote

1200cc started out without cam bearings. The industrial engine got them in 1965. You can search for CAM here. The show up in 1965. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/industrialdating.php

1300 Piston and Cylinder set made from the VW mould here:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2439718

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2023 6:52 pm    Post subject: Re: need to rebuild 1300 can I swap in 1600 piston/cylinders? Reply with quote

My first was a 63 standard with a 66 1300. I was 16 and beat the living sh*t out of that motor. Homemade baja. Desert Dog rear tires Weber two barrel from J C Whitney. Oil cooler behind shroud 30mm oil pump, power pulley, stinger exhaust, missing tin, skid plate, 009 static timed and every other thing you can think of to destroy an engine. It survived. As did I, Good stock.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2023 3:30 am    Post subject: Re: need to rebuild 1300 can I swap in 1600 piston/cylinders? Reply with quote

Bonesberg55 wrote:
Erik G wrote:
Augiedoggy wrote:
Ok then this is a viable option from. What I've read , correct?

https://aapistons.com/products/vw-1600-single-port...Q-EALw_wcB


yes

oprn wrote:
The 1300 was the most durable, longest lasting engine the factory put out


Bullshit. maybe until cam bearings came out


Huh? The 1300 had cam bearings. The 1200 did not.

Be careful making comments on engines you have never owned or worked on. Wink
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2023 4:45 am    Post subject: Re: need to rebuild 1300 can I swap in 1600 piston/cylinders? Reply with quote

BTW, I have 3 good std 1300 pistons if you're looking. The 4th has a crack around one of the pin bosses.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2023 5:02 am    Post subject: Re: need to rebuild 1300 can I swap in 1600 piston/cylinders? Reply with quote

heimlich wrote:
1200cc started out without cam bearings. The industrial engine got them in 1965. You can search for CAM here. The show up in 1965. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/industrialdating.php

1300 Piston and Cylinder set made from the VW mould here:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2439718

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
thanks... those are the very same ones I linked above being sold on a different site they link as well .. I may pick these up.
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