Yet another Baja Project with pictures

UncleDirty · Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 3:35 pm Post subject:

Quad, 14" travel in the rear
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bajaherbie · Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 5:50 pm Post subject:

i think jowlz means he is going to use 14" travel shocks, two per side for a total of four shocks.

nice frame jig, has the chevy dealer missed it yet?
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Jowlz · Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 6:36 pm Post subject:

Yes I did mean 4 14" travel shocks. I am going with stiffer valving on both, hoping it will tame some of the bounce I expect from the added weight of the 2300cc Ford motor.....

The jig is actually from our big shop. I am putting this car together in a small shop behind the house. From time to time when I need equipment I'll bring it over from the race shop.
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The honey-do list put my project on hold.......

HamburgerBrad · Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 6:39 pm Post subject:

what size/manufacturer are your torsion bars?
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OGST | CU05 | OGJHC
1970 baja|1953 oval

Wanted: two beat up, ugly, curb rashed 6" phone dial wheels

Jowlz · Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 7:45 pm Post subject:

Right now I have the long stock torsions in but I am planning on going bigger, as I was planning on a VW 1915cc. Any recommendations on bar diameter?
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The honey-do list put my project on hold.......

HamburgerBrad · Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 7:49 pm Post subject:

so... 1915 vw, or ford?
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OGST | CU05 | OGJHC
1970 baja|1953 oval

Wanted: two beat up, ugly, curb rashed 6" phone dial wheels

Jowlz · Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 7:54 pm Post subject:

I had been planning on a VW 1915, but am definately going with the Pinto engine.
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The honey-do list put my project on hold.......

SHMO · Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:11 pm Post subject:

You're going to need at least a 29-30mm Bar to support that kind of weight. And, you are not going to compensate with shocks. Springs and dampeners perform different jobs.You are trying to tame the wrong animal. Spring for weight, shock for control.

SHMO
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SHMO's Baja

HamburgerBrad · Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:51 pm Post subject:

my car is pretty light and i have 28? (dont recall, i'd have to check the thread) and those bars seem to be about perfect for it.
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OGST | CU05 | OGJHC
1970 baja|1953 oval

Wanted: two beat up, ugly, curb rashed 6" phone dial wheels

Jowlz · Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 6:11 pm Post subject:

Any brand recommendation?
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The honey-do list put my project on hold.......

bajaherbie · Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 7:20 pm Post subject:

sway-away is the brand to use.
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scott the viking · Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 4:10 pm Post subject:

Ever consider ditching the torsion bars and going with a coilover setup using fox or kings? I have been really happy with how quickly I can change pre-load or the whole spring rate for that matter.
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SHMO · Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 4:46 pm Post subject:

Scott,

where did you buy your coilovers and how much coin did you drop for them?

SHMO
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SHMO's Baja

bajaherbie · Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:59 pm Post subject:

hey my name is scott, too... Rolling Eyes

i've seen the coilover shock conversions kits for $200 in the new moore parts ad.

an 8", 10", 12", or 14" fox coilover w/ res. is $365 each. the springs are $70, but i'm not sure if that is each or per pair. you need 4 springs for two shocks...plus shipping , packing, etc.

the kings are about $495 plus springs, etc. at moore parts.

plus an extra charge for valving and gas.

i'm sure i'm missing something.

i've also seen a couple of "ebay stores" that had good prices, one offered free valving and gas charging set for your particular ride.
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scott the viking · Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 8:07 am Post subject:

Hey SHMO, I went with moore parts, they seemed to have the best deal, BUUUUUT....it took them around a month to get them to me. I went with Fox 10" travel, 7/8 shaft, and remote reservoir. They were $365.00 each, with no springs. So plan on being in around 440 per shock after shipping and springs. Yes...it still makes me cringe a little, but it was well worth it. Here's a tip, since I know many of you are thinking "I have seem them cheaper" the cheaper shocks have a smaller diameter shaft, which is fine if you are not going to have the shocks as your sole suspension. If you are going to run a complete coil over conversion, take it from someone who already tried the cheap route, DO NOT go with anything smaller than a 7/8 shaft. They WILL bend with even mediocre off road driving. So far, the people at Fox have been VERY helpful with every single question that I had, which customer service is very important to me. All in all, I am very happy with the set up.
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Jowlz · Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 11:00 am Post subject:

I considered going to coilover. Besides price, my biggest hang up with them is the springs. I have read alot of threads both here and other places where people were installing coilovers. In almost every post people are changing springs out to different rates etc. I live on the east coast and swapping out springs would be a total pain in the ass.
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The honey-do list put my project on hold.......

scott the viking · Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 11:28 am Post subject:

here's the thing, if you get to know what does what on the shock, like pre load. Then you only really need one set of springs. From my talking with others before I bought mine, I found out that a 400 pound top spring and a 450 bottom (in the rear) seems to work very well. You will have to mess around with the pre-load a bit, which can be done on the trail or in the dunes. But one you get them dialed in the way you like, you don't need to mess with it.
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SHMO · Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 12:19 pm Post subject:

That's kind of true about the preload Scott, but spring rates are every bit as important as dialing in the right valving in a shock. And, preload does not effect the overal rate of the spring. If your spring rate is too stiff or too soft, you will not be able to dial in the setup correctly. For instance, if you were bottoming before and you crank up the preload to compensate, now you will be faced with a harsher ride for the majority of the travel. Ideally you would want to adjust the spring rates so that you can have a nice ride for the stutter bumps, but still be able to control wheel travel for the big hits. Every car has different weight, ditribution of that weight, wheel travel, driving style and so on. All of these play a role in finding the right spring rates for each particular setup.

The only reason I know this, is becuase I have spent a lot of time dialing in coilover suspension setups. Not so much on off road cars, but I have spent a tremendous amount of time dealing with it on snowmobile hillclimbers which use the same basic principals. There is a whole lot to be said for finding just the right combination of spring rates for a certain setup. It is actually fairly common for trail riders to chose a variable rate setup that comes on really soft intially and then really steps up the rate towards the end of the travel. this gives them a super plush ride at moderate speeds and still keeps from bottoming hard if an occasional "big hit" comes along the way. However, this setup won't work for a racer or someone that pushes hard and fast all the time. There is always a tradeoff, and every vehicle and driver require different needs.

SHMO
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scott the viking · Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 2:00 pm Post subject:

Surprising as it may be...I know a little about spring rate and yes, you are right that every car and driver has its own needs. However...(speaking for myself), as long as it rides really good, does not bottom out too much, gives me a nice float over the choppy stuff and is around 200% better than any of the torsion bar setups I ran prior then I am happy. I am not likely to be changing spring rate for fear of feeling a mouse turd of a bump somewhere down the trail Shocked

.
Even if a guy was anal enough to constantly change his spring rate for every different run or trail, wouldn't it be easier for him to change the coil over spring rather than installing a different set of torsion bars? Also, where you are at, should not cause you any trouble getting springs, as long as you can get UPS you can get Eibach springs. Where I live no one handles the stuff I need either, I always have to order it.
The 400 450 that I recommended, is what I personally came to after trying a few sets and talking with a few guys that had Bajas with coil overs. They hit a "happy medium" with me. I can feel a lot more road than I could with the 300 350 set, but I am also not bottoming out on big jumps (as much Embarassed

). I may drive differently than you and my car may weigh a little less (and me a little more Laughing

) but you are building a Baja bug, so it would at least give you a good starting point. I'm not recommending some spring I have on my dually 4 door 4x4.
Truthfully, I like both setups, but the difference with the coil overs is HUGE. Also something to keep in mind, most of my off-road driving is done at the dunes, so really big ups and downs, since you are on the east coast, I would assume that most of your driving is not at the dunes. So you probably could go to a lighter spring rate than I am running.
The fab work it takes to mount a coil over setup is not for everyone, looks to me like you may have (or know where to get all the tools involved to do it. Besides...I am sure SHMO will let you use all his stuff (no charge of course Cool

).
Sounds as if you have decided to stay with the torsion setup anyway, so listen to SHMO on what you need for bars (he's already done it Wink

).
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No more circus midget ...Vote for Herbie.

Play an accordion...go to jail.

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Yet another Baja Project with pictures
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