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wes63bug
Samba Member
Joined: June 27, 2005
Posts: 103
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 Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 10:49 pm Post subject: Need info on Thermador restoration |
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| Im getting a thermador swamp cooler for my bug, but the fill lid fell in the canister, i was wondering do these things come apart at all? or are they just one piece with the smaller hole in front for the air to come in. If they dont come apart, which i dont see how they would, how do you go about tighting the spring, and fixing the fill lid? Ive seen the little swamp coolers that are like 13 inches long and have a round can, and the back unscrews so you cAn get in there to fix stuff. Well any info would be nice before i buy this thermador, thanks. |
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RareAir
Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2002
Posts: 14576
Location: 18 miles North of the border
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55reasons
Samba Swamp Cooler
Joined: December 31, 2003
Posts: 942
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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I sent you a PM on the subject, but I'll post this up for anyone else who wants to know.
The ends of the thermador, (and similar tooling models), swamp coolers are spot welded in place.
They were then filled with resin (tar) on both ends from the filler hole to create a watertight seal.
There should be about 11 spot welds holding the end cap on the "tube" that you can drill out to release the welds.
Wurher Borher makes a good drill bit for this, and they are pretty common in most body shop supply stores.
Run the bit at a VERY SLOW speed. Usually 1 rotation per second is fast enough. These bits are not designed to run at high speed and doing so will only lead to two things; premature bit wear, and a hole that not only drills out the spot weld but drills a hole right through the whole assembly. This obviously sucks because for every spot weld you drill out, you have to fill those holes back in later.
Once the spots are drilled out, I would suggest using a torch to heat the resin (tar) so that it gets nice and gooey to make it easier to remove the end(s).
Pull the end off, and you're in.
The spring is (90% of the time), not usually the culprit, as the most common problem is directly related to somebody trying to replace cord, and the spring loses it's preload.
Do what you have to do, and put it back together in reverse order with some exceptions:
(This is where I go into generalities because it's somewhat proprietary) 
Painted coolers suck. They will eventually chip, peel, and rust.
Those holes you drilled in the endcap need to be filled with something durable, pliable, and capable of holding a charge. (hint, hint on the right finish) That filler material also needs to be able to be applied at such a low temperature that it will not cause any warping of the metal or you'll never get the endcap back on. (hint, hint, hint,... I don't recommend any kind of conventional welding)
Since you have now removed all of the old resin (tar) inside you will need a new sealant to ensure it's watertight characteristics. (if you can't figure this one out don't even bother with step one)
Since it's not practical in most cases to spot weld the end caps back on again, I suggest using a fastener that resists corrosion, looks vintage, and will allow you to re-open the assembly in case anything goes wrong in the future.(I'm sure you can figure that one out too.)
Don't use dyed or colored cord. I guarantee it will either look like shit with a quickness, or be too stiff. Stay with a natural or synthetic cord that has similar properties to that of the original.
If you don't have a prop rod support or prop rod, I would suggest tackling that FIRST so that you can mock it up on the car before you start all the other work. This will also ensure you don't forget to do it before you get a finish on it.
Just the basics...
let me know how it goes.
Good luck. |
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wes63bug
Samba Member
Joined: June 27, 2005
Posts: 103
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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| AWSOME write up, thank you very much, i couldnt of asked for any more info. |
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55reasons
Samba Swamp Cooler
Joined: December 31, 2003
Posts: 942
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| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:31 am Post subject: |
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[email protected],
Thanks for the heads up.
-Chad |
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krazkayaker
Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2003
Posts: 101
Location: Canada ( Winnipeg)
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| Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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Good info and suggestions for cooler repair 55. I am about to tackle one myself and am wondering what you suggest to refinish my cooler with. It has a few good dents in it ( enough so the pad won't turn inside) and I am debating whether to open it up and use a little hammer/dolly work or try a stud welder and pull the dents. Either way I think I'm gonna need paint. Suggestions?
Thanks man! |
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55reasons
Samba Swamp Cooler
Joined: December 31, 2003
Posts: 942
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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I would pull the ends off and work it from the inside as much as possible...
If you are working on a thermador model or a similiar one with the louvers in the back, you shouldn't need to take the back piece off. The front cap is all you need to get off...
When you pull the element out, fill up a 5 gallon bucket with some water, ad a few capfulls of bleach and soak it for about 10 minutes. There is no better time to clean the element and remove any stale odor than now...!!
There are some nice wrinkle finish powdercoats out there that look pretty cool, and some that look pretty vintage as well. Remember that you will have to sand off some around the rod, cone, and cap to get it back down to a tolerance that will allow it to go back together with ease....
There is no right way to get the end cap on besides prior planning and patience.... Test fit, test fit, test fit, apply sealant, and seal it up good while the sealant is fresh and gooey.. Screwing around with it later on (10-15 minutes later) will almost always result in a leak later on...
I have a thing for rivets too
Good luck! |
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krazkayaker
Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2003
Posts: 101
Location: Canada ( Winnipeg)
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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Good advice! Thanks a lot.
By any chance do you have a good shot of a prop rod you could post? I have seen a couple different kinds ( one has a single rod and the other a double point attached rod with a bend near the bottom point) and am not sure which is correct.
Much appreciated.
Regards from Canada! |
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55reasons
Samba Swamp Cooler
Joined: December 31, 2003
Posts: 942
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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Well a search in the gallery would do you some good, BUT.......
Also, look at screen door closer replacement parts at the local Home Depot... One of them will look suspiciously like a support rod that just needs a different end.... |
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r39o
Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 9800
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| 55reasons wrote: |
| Those holes you drilled in the endcap need to be filled with something durable, pliable, and capable of holding a charge. (hint, hint on the right finish) That filler material also needs to be able to be applied at such a low temperature that it will not cause any warping of the metal or you'll never get the endcap back on. (hint, hint, hint,... I don't recommend any kind of conventional welding) |
From the above I gather this is either Silver Solder, Braze or that funny Aluminum filler you melt with a torch. OK, but then the below states to use fastners. Will 11 stainless pop rivets look funny? Or would 11 counter sunk stainless screws going into nutserts be problematic? So why do you want to fill the holes only to reapply fastners in holes again? I guess I am missing something.
| 55reasons wrote: |
| Since it's not practical in most cases to spot weld the end caps back on again, I suggest using a fastener that resists corrosion, looks vintage, and will allow you to re-open the assembly in case anything goes wrong in the future.(I'm sure you can figure that one out too.) |
Would you just use a few fastners here or all 11 places that were resistance welded before? It is not as impractical as you may think to electrically refasten the end cap. But, if you do electrostatically paint it, then it is near impossible to resistance weld th cap back on.
| 55reasons wrote: |
| I have a thing for rivets too |
How many in one end, then?
As an aside, I think I saw some with built in electric fans. Good or bad idea to add one while it is apart?
TIA,
Walt...
_________________
"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
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Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently) |
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55reasons
Samba Swamp Cooler
Joined: December 31, 2003
Posts: 942
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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There's more than one way to skin a cat...
I am by no means the foremost expert on swamp coolers, but having done quite a few I'm just offering advice based on my personal experience and personal preferences....
Why fill the holes and then drill them out again? Well because I have found that in many cases the factory spot welds are not always centered on the lip and in order to open them up you sometimes have to drill out a spot weld that touches the edge of the lip. Combined with the fact that the factory spot welds are best removed with a 6mm Wurth B2000 Bohrer, the holes left behind are extremely large in relation to the width of the lip creating the seal.
I braze them closed, then use Dremel to smooth out the lips and the brazing.
I see no reason to apply fasteners in all the locations originally used, and in more cases than not I use just enough rivets to be symmetrical while holding the cap on so that the sealant can set up properly without leaking.
The electric fan thing is up to you... If you want one, by all means this is the time to do it.. You can salvage some vintage 6V fan motors and make one, or search for an original one (good luck), or update it a bit with anew 12V motor.. (depends on your car).... I, personally don't really like the cords combined with the water etc..... Plus having to run the wire in the window to pick up power is always less than desirable....
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krazkayaker
Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2003
Posts: 101
Location: Canada ( Winnipeg)
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the info ( and the Home depot idea....nice find!
Here are the two styles of rod I had found. Not that it is a big deal but I like to try to keep to as original as possible. The first is the bent rod style.....
...and this one a straight rod.
I have a thermador so which is correct?
Thanks |
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55reasons
Samba Swamp Cooler
Joined: December 31, 2003
Posts: 942
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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Either..
Depends on what vehicle the mounting kit was purchased for.
I've never seen a curved rod on a VW though. I have seen them on old Buicks but never on a VW...
I like the straight rod look myself. |
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robby hull
Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2006
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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| 55reasons wrote: |
I sent you a PM on the subject, but I'll post this up for anyone else who wants to know.
The ends of the thermador, (and similar tooling models), swamp coolers are spot welded in place.
They were then filled with resin (tar) on both ends from the filler hole to create a watertight seal.
There should be about 11 spot welds holding the end cap on the "tube" that you can drill out to release the welds.
Wurher Borher makes a good drill bit for this, and they are pretty common in most body shop supply stores.
Run the bit at a VERY SLOW speed. Usually 1 rotation per second is fast enough. These bits are not designed to run at high speed and doing so will only lead to two things; premature bit wear, and a hole that not only drills out the spot weld but drills a hole right through the whole assembly. This obviously sucks because for every spot weld you drill out, you have to fill those holes back in later.
Once the spots are drilled out, I would suggest using a torch to heat the resin (tar) so that it gets nice and gooey to make it easier to remove the end(s).
Pull the end off, and you're in.
The spring is (90% of the time), not usually the culprit, as the most common problem is directly related to somebody trying to replace cord, and the spring loses it's preload.
Do what you have to do, and put it back together in reverse order with some exceptions:
(This is where I go into generalities because it's somewhat proprietary)
Painted coolers suck. They will eventually chip, peel, and rust.
Those holes you drilled in the endcap need to be filled with something durable, pliable, and capable of holding a charge. (hint, hint on the right finish) That filler material also needs to be able to be applied at such a low temperature that it will not cause any warping of the metal or you'll never get the endcap back on. (hint, hint, hint,... I don't recommend any kind of conventional welding)
Since you have now removed all of the old resin (tar) inside you will need a new sealant to ensure it's watertight characteristics. (if you can't figure this one out don't even bother with step one)
Since it's not practical in most cases to spot weld the end caps back on again, I suggest using a fastener that resists corrosion, looks vintage, and will allow you to re-open the assembly in case anything goes wrong in the future.(I'm sure you can figure that one out too.)
Don't use dyed or colored cord. I guarantee it will either look like shit with a quickness, or be too stiff. Stay with a natural or synthetic cord that has similar properties to that of the original.
If you don't have a prop rod support or prop rod, I would suggest tackling that FIRST so that you can mock it up on the car before you start all the other work. This will also ensure you don't forget to do it before you get a finish on it.
Just the basics...
let me know how it goes.
Good luck. |
Hello, I read your swamp cooler repair tips on the samba.com and you seem to be the most knowledgeable person I can locate on this planet. I recently purchased one in good shape, however during shipping the screen fell completely inside causing the pull cord to not spin so freely. I managed to get the screen out eventually but the pull cord broke! Is it possible to re-thread it in there or is the back cap going to have to come off?
Thanks!
Robby Hull
[email protected] |
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55reasons
Samba Swamp Cooler
Joined: December 31, 2003
Posts: 942
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| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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If it's a Thermador model, (or a similiar model with vents in the rear) it's easier to just take off the front end instead.
If you broke the cord and you can figure out a way to fix it without opening it, post it up here as many have tried and I don't think anybody has succeeded.
You will more than likely have to remove the front or rear cap to replace the cord and preload the spring.
Good luck! |
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ivsamhell
Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2006
Posts: 858
Location: hesperiaCA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:23 am Post subject: |
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rivets are out of the question in my case, want it to look factory....
once its together anyone had them powdrercoated?
not sure how the sealant or element will hold up to 400 degrees....
any thoughts? |
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ivsamhell
Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2006
Posts: 858
Location: hesperiaCA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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ok heres how its gonna go...
weld the front on.
powdercoat.
seal the front up.
install the "guts".
the rear is only pressed/sealed on, so redo that.
done.
havent figured out the pull cord part yet....
i think you just preload the spring and the cord just goes through the element?.... |
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ivsamhell
Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2006
Posts: 858
Location: hesperiaCA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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please ignore the car its mounted on.....just a jig.
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ivsamhell
Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2006
Posts: 858
Location: hesperiaCA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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some new pics,
overworked the shit out of the rear panel, either use a tig or ventless panel next time...looks fine from a couple feet not for a 10 point show car though. pics seem uglier than it is but i suppose they dont really lie...
all seems to be workin, all my bugs are down at the moment so cant really test it, fuckers heavy full prolly rework the mounts again to hang from the rain gutter instead of the door...prolly use or make a prop rod model for the next one..
didnt take pics puttin back together, i was a bit too involved tryin to figure out how the pull cord is supposed to work. dont know if i did it how it was as i had no reference but it works.
still gotta polish up the mounts and install them, and either get another rear panel or just install it..
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GüteAndTite
Early Convertible Güru
Joined: June 16, 2005
Posts: 2144
Location: Low So Cal
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