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ROCKOROD71 Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2012 Posts: 2770 Location: Boston, MA
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Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:55 am Post subject: |
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The explanation for the swap (or eagerness for it) is simple. Manual transmissions are more "fun" to drive. Drag cars don't have auto-sticks, racecars don't have auto-sticks, same for rally cars, formula one, hell even big boy go-kart racers have a clutch. People who are "into" cars generally like driving a manual. They get better gas mileage (generally speaking, not VW specific). Hell even my girlfriend went for a manual when she bought her first car last year because "it's more fun"- her words. There is also a degree of control it gives you over the car. Slowing down via downshifting, taking corners, being able to let the clutch in or out halfway, shifting into gear with the clutch down and riding it for a second until you need to engage, that kinda stuff.
I'm not busting on AS, I actually think they're pretty cool. If I could have a few more bugs I'd get one just for that decklid script! However my preference is for manuals. No one is attacking auto-sticks, but if you're ever in a room full of "car people" like any of my family gatherings, the reasons why people prefer manual are pretty evident. Even my dad and uncle say the automatics are for old guys with bum knees who don't wanna work a clutch anymore (both of them drive auto muscle cars ). Its good cuz I get to give them crap for that, they give me crap for driving a Kraut-mobile and not a Camaro or something.... _________________ 1971 STD BEETLE- DD-1st car, 1st love. keepin' it stock! 1600DP, Solex 34-3 Mexi Bosch SVDA Dist NOW w/POINTS
1977 WESTY "KrustyKamper" 2L FI
79SuperVert wrote: |
30 years from now, the next guy may not want your girlfriend, but he may want your classic car, depending on how nice you were to it. |
asiab3 wrote: |
Careful guys, a petulant child can grow up to be president these days. |
**winter drivers: no survivors!**rust warrior**#keepbodyshopsbusy** |
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Busdriver79 Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2011 Posts: 1655 Location: The Peoples' Republic of "No" Jersey
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Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:13 am Post subject: |
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Basically an Autostick is a three speed manual transmission using a manual clutch through a torque converter...the clutch is released/engaged via a vacuum servo...the microswitch on the shifter is connected to a solenoid that activates the servo that moves the clutch release lever...just putting hand pressure upon the shifter releases the clutch...removing your hand from the shifter engages the clutch...very simple...the converter prevents stalling and allows smooth starts....now the clutch, torque converter, and transmission are very trouble free....what fails is the vacuum servo and the solenoids and the microswitch on the shift handle....if these things ever fail on my Autostick, I'll most likely install a manual clutch pedal assembly, a clutch cable and tube (if there isn't one there already) and simply use my left foot to engage/disengage the clutch when I shift, while keeping the torque converter and three speed transmission intact....sort of like the Chrysler cars of the 40s-50s with their "Fluid Drive"....P.S. this is easier than changing the transmission. |
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10399 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:33 am Post subject: |
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ROCKOROD71 wrote: |
If I could have a few more bugs I'd get one just for that decklid script! |
Holy crap...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-volkswagen-AUTOMATIC-ST...mp;vxp=mtr
Listen folks, they ain't THAT rare, I got my whole replacement decklid with the script for $25 from a seller on here. For the price this guy's asking, I might as well just go buy that rotted out vert I asked about in the other thread. _________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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mouser98 Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2012 Posts: 300 Location: Lugoff, SC
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Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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wow. i guess i made a good deal when i bought mine off the Samba for $25 |
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10399 Location: NW Arkansas
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mouser98 Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2012 Posts: 300 Location: Lugoff, SC
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Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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yeah that's mostly a load of crap. |
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Aldwych Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2013 Posts: 59 Location: Vienna, Austria
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Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:02 am Post subject: |
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Busdriver79 wrote: |
if these things ever fail on my Autostick, I'll most likely install a manual clutch pedal assembly, a clutch cable and tube (if there isn't one there already) and simply use my left foot to engage/disengage the clutch when I shift, while keeping the torque converter and three speed transmission intact....sort of like the Chrysler cars of the 40s-50s with their "Fluid Drive"....P.S. this is easier than changing the transmission. |
Is this actually possible? |
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10399 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:35 am Post subject: |
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Aldwych wrote: |
Busdriver79 wrote: |
if these things ever fail on my Autostick, I'll most likely install a manual clutch pedal assembly, a clutch cable and tube (if there isn't one there already) and simply use my left foot to engage/disengage the clutch when I shift, while keeping the torque converter and three speed transmission intact....sort of like the Chrysler cars of the 40s-50s with their "Fluid Drive"....P.S. this is easier than changing the transmission. |
Is this actually possible? |
Possible? Yes.
Practical? Hmmm.
Actually to be honest I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work- if I remember right there are two sections to the clutch arm joined together at a pivot point between the servo and the transmission housing, so the servo side of the arm could be separated and removed, and the clutch cable could just be attached to the part of the clutch arm sticking out of the transmission. Only thing is making sure the cable is attached in such a way to properly engage and disengage the clutch-- but I don't see that being too difficult. Then everything related to the autostick system (control valve, clutch servo, vacuum tank, vacuum hoses) could be removed. Just keep the ATF tank.
If you like the feel of clutch pedal operation but wanted to keep the WHOLE autostick system installed, you could also simply install the clutch pedal with a sensor that senses when the clutch pedal is pressed and sends the signal back to the control valve, instead of having the shifter contact plates do it. This is the same thing they do on manual transmission cars with cruise control- there is a sensor in the clutch pedal that deactivates cruise when you press in the clutch pedal. Same exact idea--but of course this means leaving all of the autostick system in place. _________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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Aldwych Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2013 Posts: 59 Location: Vienna, Austria
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Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:15 am Post subject: |
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sb001 wrote: |
Possible? Yes.
Practical? Hmmm.
Actually to be honest I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work- if I remember right there are two sections to the clutch arm joined together at a pivot point between the servo and the transmission housing, so the servo side of the arm could be separated and removed, and the clutch cable could just be attached to the part of the clutch arm sticking out of the transmission. Only thing is making sure the cable is attached in such a way to properly engage and disengage the clutch-- but I don't see that being too difficult. Then everything related to the autostick system (control valve, clutch servo, vacuum tank, vacuum hoses) could be removed. Just keep the ATF tank.
If you like the feel of clutch pedal operation but wanted to keep the WHOLE autostick system installed, you could also simply install the clutch pedal with a sensor that senses when the clutch pedal is pressed and sends the signal back to the control valve, instead of having the shifter contact plates do it. This is the same thing they do on manual transmission cars with cruise control- there is a sensor in the clutch pedal that deactivates cruise when you press in the clutch pedal. Same exact idea--but of course this means leaving all of the autostick system in place. |
Thanks for your reply! I don't intend to do this, I'm just concerned that one day, e.g. my servo will die and I won't be able to find a spare one (the classifieds on this site are great, but I couldn't really afford the shipping and customs costs, I live in Europe). In that case I wouldn't want to lose the Autostick altogether, so if this is possible, I would just remove the whole vacuum system as you said and install manual clutch operation. |
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10399 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:42 am Post subject: |
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Aldwych wrote: |
Thanks for your reply! I don't intend to do this, I'm just concerned that one day, e.g. my servo will die and I won't be able to find a spare one (the classifieds on this site are great, but I couldn't really afford the shipping and customs costs, I live in Europe). In that case I wouldn't want to lose the Autostick altogether, so if this is possible, I would just remove the whole vacuum system as you said and install manual clutch operation. |
If your clutch servo ever goes out this is all you would need to repair it (and this vendor is in the UK):
http://www.vwheritage.com/vw_spares_Clutch-servo-r...974776.htm
It's not expensive at all to fix. _________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor
Last edited by sb001 on Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:55 am; edited 1 time in total |
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10399 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:55 am Post subject: |
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So thinking about how this would work--Yep- here's a picture of my spare autsotick tranny with the clutch servo can installed-
You can see the pivot point on the arm with the pin holding it in place:
So remove the pin and the clutch can:
And attach the clutch cable to the clutch arm sticking out of the transmission here:
I don't see why it wouldn't work. Intriguing idea busdriver79!! _________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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Aldwych Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2013 Posts: 59 Location: Vienna, Austria
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Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:37 am Post subject: |
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Thank you very much!
sb001 wrote: |
[Pictures]
I don't see why it wouldn't work. Intriguing idea busdriver79!! |
Very interesting! Thank you, really! |
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Busdriver79 Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2011 Posts: 1655 Location: The Peoples' Republic of "No" Jersey
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Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:22 am Post subject: |
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sb001 wrote: |
So thinking about how this would work--Yep- here's a picture of my spare autsotick tranny with the clutch servo can installed-
You can see the pivot point on the arm with the pin holding it in place:
So remove the pin and the clutch can:
And attach the clutch cable to the clutch arm sticking out of the transmission here:
I don't see why it wouldn't work. Intriguing idea busdriver79!! |
I used to own a few Mopars from the 1940s and 50s that had the Fluid Drive system...those cars had a manual gearbox with a standard clutch and pedal and a torque converter on the flywheel....you would start in first gear as in a standard three speed trans, but you could let out the clutch completely without stalling the engine !..give it some gas and go....I was thinking that if my vacuum servo or any other related components went south, I could still keep the AutoStick transmission and use a clutch pedal to disengage the clutch in order to shift gears...I love the AutoStick setup and wouldn't want to change to a four speed...I have a Type 181 and a Bus with four speed gearboxes already...The AutoStick is cool and unique...I'm not another "me too" guy...I'm now doing a ton of work on my 71 Super, (lowering the front, and an alternator conversion)...maybe I'll convert to a clutch pedal at the same time...we'll see how it all goes....I'm not afraid to do fabrication to make it work. |
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Busdriver79 Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2011 Posts: 1655 Location: The Peoples' Republic of "No" Jersey
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Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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I'm gonna take the jump and put three pedals into my Super Beetle w/AutoStick, eliminating the vacuum operated servo that operates the T/O bearing to engage and disengage the clutch...I'll also be removing all of the gizmos in the engine bay and the wiring for them...Today I bought a brand new pedal assembly and clutch cable...I don't know if there is a cable tube in place or not, but I'm ready to put one in the tunnel if I need to...We'll see how this goes. |
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10399 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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I'm interested in seeing this. The only concern I would have is the amount of "pull" the vacuum system puts on the clutch arm to disengage the clutch- but I supposed a cable will be strong enough to do the same thing without breaking. _________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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Busdriver79 Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2011 Posts: 1655 Location: The Peoples' Republic of "No" Jersey
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Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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It shouldn't be too dramatic...the only bump in the road will be the tube in the tunnel, or lack thereof...I'm definitely not afraid to fabricate whatever it takes to make it work...remember this...there will not be any slipping of the clutch upon starting in gear...it is going to engage like the stock vacuum servo...just let the pedal up fast...it won't stall...and go....step on the pedal...shift...let up on the pedal...and keep going...very simple...if I find that a heavier cable is needed, I have plenty of garage door cable to use...I'm just bypassing all the servos, solenoids, and wiring from the shift handle, and still have a fully functioning torque converter, clutch, and transmission....I can't find anyone else who has done this, so I'll have to figure it out as I go...I love a challenge....the pedal pressure won't be a problem...the pressure plate is not a racing unit...in fact it is standard duty and comparable to stock 4 speed unit. |
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10399 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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Busdriver79 wrote: |
It shouldn't be too dramatic...the only bump in the road will be the tube in the tunnel, or lack thereof...I'm definitely not afraid to fabricate whatever it takes to make it work...remember this...there will not be any slipping of the clutch upon starting in gear...it is going to engage like the stock vacuum servo...just let the pedal up fast...it won't stall...and go....step on the pedal...shift...let up on the pedal...and keep going...very simple...if I find that a heavier cable is needed, I have plenty of garage door cable to use...I'm just bypassing all the servos, solenoids, and wiring from the shift handle, and still have a fully functioning torque converter, clutch, and transmission....I can't find anyone else who has done this, so I'll have to figure it out as I go...I love a challenge. |
The feeling of driving this would be so weird-- as you said you won't have the typical clutch pedal slippage feel of a stock manual tranny- _________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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vw81jetta Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2003 Posts: 117 Location: Toledo , ohio
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Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:16 am Post subject: |
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Im curious if anyone has done this yet ? also would you only need the clutch pedal to change gears , meaning you could just use the brake pedal at a stop light still ? _________________ ~Jay
68 dunebuggy ,72 411, 75 Westfalia, 85 Cabriolet , 99 new beetle,
Greater Toledo Volkswagen Club Staff |
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Busdriver79 Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2011 Posts: 1655 Location: The Peoples' Republic of "No" Jersey
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Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:04 am Post subject: |
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vw81jetta wrote: |
Im curious if anyone has done this yet ? also would you only need the clutch pedal to change gears , meaning you could just use the brake pedal at a stop light still ? |
... Yes, that's the way it works...come to a full stop without pushing the clutch pedal down and the engine won't stall....just use the pedal to change gears instead of the vacuum servo doing it for you...remember, this is a fully functioning three speed manual gearbox with a torque converter between the engine and the clutch....my Super is under the knife as we speak...however, I found that I have to replace both heater channels too...interior is stripped out and tons of work ahead ! |
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bigfeller Samba Member
Joined: July 23, 2013 Posts: 11 Location: Toronto, ON
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Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 9:04 am Post subject: Another thought... |
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