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36 hp into a 1500cc
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sconord
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:33 am    Post subject: 36 hp into a 1500cc Reply with quote

Is it possible to make a regular 36 hp into a 1500 + size engine while keeping the same appearance of the 36 hp stock?

I am not talking the Oksara engine due to the price. Just a hobbyist rebuild of a 36.

What parts would be needed?

Is it possible?

Would it hold up to use?
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coolairX2
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 6:41 am    Post subject: Well yes and no Reply with quote

To make a 1500 cc you would need a 69mm crank and 83mm P&C's. You could fit the bigger P&C's 912 or 'maybe' 1500cc P&C's from a later engine. You are not going to fit much later P&C's than 83.5.
Of course unless you get a bigger crank you will only end up with say a 1300+-, I didn't do the calculation.

-Craig
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bugnut68
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a reason VW changed the case design as they increased the displacement of their air-cooled engines...a 36-horse case will not stand up to the additional strain of more displacement and power after machining it for bigger bore. Truthfully, you're better off using the case that a 1500 was designed for.
It's like building a hot rod engine out of a 40 horse case (same idea).
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sconord
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am trying to keep the stock 36 look with a 1500.

I know it can be done, but what would I need.

From aircooed.net edited

"36-40 HP engines are small, and you should not attempt to build a performance engine from these starting points. Prior to 1966, Beetles and Ghias came equipped with these engines. The 1300/1500/1600 engine should be the basis for all performance modifications. The cylinder hole in the case is the same for all 3-engine sizes! Both the 1500 and 1600 engine use the same size bore in the case and cylinder head, but the 1300 has a smaller bore. The 1300cc engine can be upgraded too if you bore the 1300 cylinder heads out to the 1600cc size, or replace them with the 1500 or 1600 cylinder head. "


I would use 1500 heads with 1500 cylinders and pistons. What about the crank and beariings? I want to do an Oksara eninge without spending the $6500. It can be done very inexpensively.
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kherrerab
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the engine that came with my 74 german bug was originally a 1200cc engine from factory. About 3 years ago i changed everything to 1600cc (from stroke to bore, heads, etc) and used the old case.

Actually has 87mm pistons and runs ok. No heating problems at all.

Aparently i was a block for 1600 and they put a 1200 on it, or something.
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sconord
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want to keep the 36 case from a late 50's- with attached generator stand 6v.

I think I may be able to put 1500 pistons and cylinders on it and will use 1500 heads.

I want it to be very drivable while keeping a vintage look.
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bugnut68
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do what you want, but I'm sure you're going to hear the same thing from tons of other people too...the 36hp engine is not a suitable base for modifying beyond its stock capability. Smaller oil passages, different case metallurgy...there's a reason why people aren't doing it anymore. Sorry to be blunt, but I'd hate to see anyone waste their money.
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swanlakers
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please post pictures after you get the 1500 heads bolted onto a 36hp case
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sconord
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am hoping I can. I have more research to do on the project first. If anyone else has done it, PLEASE chime in...
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JamesT
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It isn't very doable. You'd have to change the stud pattern around the cylinders to put a later style head in, and even if you did, the cylinder spacing is too far apart for the earlier case. Everything is smaller on the 36hp engine, not just the displacement. What you are proposing is similar to putting a 2.0L type IV crank, pistons, cylinders, and heads on a 1600 block and keeping it looking stock. It's posible, it's just not easy, cheap, or reliable.

If you want a 1500, put a 1500 in. You want something that looks like a 36 horse, leave the 36 horse engine in it. The best option is to try and find a 69mm "stroker" crank for a 36horse and keep everything else basically the same. It won't be cheap to get one, but it'll be easier, and more reliable than a mix-match of parts.
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sconord
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perfect, Thank you! I needed some detail from soneone whom has knowledge of these things.

I did not know if it could or should be done, nor did I know if the parts were compatible.

I think I will nix this project.

Thanks for saving me a big headache.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 10:04 am    Post subject: Well.. Reply with quote

I have done this for my split installed a 36hp case w/ 83.5 P&C's and an Okrasa crank and Okrasa top end. No stud relocating or case clearancing just open the case & heads for the jugs and trim some of the fins off the bottom end of the cylinder. I ended up with a 1511cc engine. You could have a 1600cc engine with a 74mm 356 crank. Those are much easier to find and would have given a little more punch.
The 36hp engine is very understressed as it is, and bumping it to a 1500cc I don't believe will affect the life span at all. Hell, it is a less than 5k a year sunny day and weekend car anyway.
There are cheaper and easier ways to get HP, but if that was my goal I would have bought a super beetle and installed a 1600cc stocke engine.
I say go ahead and experiment as there are lots of 36hp engines laying around corroding. IMO its better to dig them out of the dirt and get them moving a VW again.

-Craig
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bugnut68
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sconord wrote:
Perfect, Thank you! I needed some detail from soneone whom has knowledge of these things.

I did not know if it could or should be done, nor did I know if the parts were compatible.

I think I will nix this project.

Thanks for saving me a big headache.

You're welcome. Cool
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