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Tires? Stock suspension setup.
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Crippler
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 11:18 pm    Post subject: Tires? Stock suspension setup. Reply with quote

Hey yall.

I have a 71 Squareback. the stock rims/tires are a little skinny for my liking. (stock is 15inch x 4.5 inch with 135s?) I have my eyes set on some of these....

http://www.jbugs.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=500-7750&Category_Code=1278

(STOCK STYLE CHROME WHEEL, 4 LUG, 15 INCH X 5 1/2 INCH WIDTH )

i havent lowered my Squareback at all. i dont think i am going to either. (i think). but i want a tire for those rims that is going to be wider. i know i can theoretically put something intense like 205s, but will it rub? i dont think i want to go THAT wide. Also (i think) i want the front and the back tires/rims to be the same size.

i dont know what would be good for the back AND the front you know?...

if the clearance is different for the front, i suppose i could go a little smaller in the front. but i dont want anything too drastic. no hot rod styling. i like it, but not what i am going for. i just wanna give it a little fuller / beefier look.

so. with stock suspension setup, will any particular size rub? what about a little bit lower profile tire?

thanks a lot. trying to get this sorted out before i buy something in haste... Razz
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Air-Cooled Head
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Click the gallery button and check out my Square. Those exact rims, and 165/15 (stock size) tires. I'm down 2 clicks in front, and get some rubbing.
135 are for bicycles. Twisted Evil
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blankmange
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you stay with the stock wheel - yes, the 4 and 1/2 incher, you can run a fairly wide tire -- I run a 195/60 on my stock wheels, and have no rubbing at all (and my front end is lowered two notches).....

The problem with those wheels at JBugs is they are a Type 1 wheel, which means the offset is wrong for a Type 3....

As far as I know, nobody makes a reproduction steel wheel with the proper offset for a T3 -- I have looked... The best I could come up with is the stock steelies off a donor car....
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate those aftermarket chrome rims. Ugly!

If you live anywhere with weather, they will start rusting within a year or 2 - crappy chromework.
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Crippler
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

blankmange wrote:

The problem with those wheels at JBugs is they are a Type 1 wheel, which means the offset is wrong for a Type 3....

As far as I know, nobody makes a reproduction steel wheel with the proper offset for a T3 -- I have looked... The best I could come up with is the stock steelies off a donor car....


is the offset more or less than a type3? if its less, are spacers are good idea?
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Crippler
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

also, "backspace of 25" whats does that mean?
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blankmange wrote:
As far as I know, nobody makes a reproduction steel wheel with the proper offset for a T3 -- I have looked... The best I could come up with is the stock steelies off a donor car....


I think John J. did a nice write up here (yes I did try searching for it too Rolling Eyes ) that said those rims WILL work on a t-3.


crippler wrote:
but i want a tire for those rims that is going to be wider. i know i can theoretically put something intense like 205s, but will it rub? i dont think i want to go THAT wide.


If you want something with a larger footprint (tread), then you might want to look at going with a 195-65-15, as this is pretty close to the stock diameter, and gives you an extra 30mm of tread per tire. With these you shouldn't have any rubbing issues either. I hope this helps.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bobnotch wrote:
blankmange wrote:
As far as I know, nobody makes a reproduction steel wheel with the proper offset for a T3 -- I have looked... The best I could come up with is the stock steelies off a donor car....


I think John J. did a nice write up here (yes I did try searching for it too Rolling Eyes ) that said those rims WILL work on a t-3.


crippler wrote:
but i want a tire for those rims that is going to be wider. i know i can theoretically put something intense like 205s, but will it rub? i dont think i want to go THAT wide.


If you want something with a larger footprint (tread), then you might want to look at going with a 195-65-15, as this is pretty close to the stock diameter, and gives you an extra 30mm of tread per tire. With these you shouldn't have any rubbing issues either. I hope this helps.


Here it is again.... Very Happy

OK, I did a little digging around on the web and in my CIP catalog and came up with some interesting numbers.

First, lets talk tire sizes. I made one assumption that our stock tire aspect ratio is 80%. We have discussed this before with 80%, 83%, and 85% as possible answers. I don't ever remember coming to a confident answer as to which was right. So for the sake of comparison I picked 80%. I have also ignored that fact the all tires bulge out some and am only comparing the tread width. So here we go.....

Tire Diameter Width Comments
165/80R15 25.4" (645mm) 6.5" (165mm) Stock tire size
185/65R15 24.5" (622mm) 7.3" (185mm) Jordan Wilks tire size
195/50R15 22.7" (576mm) 7.7" (195mm) Common aftermarket tire
195/55R15 23.5" (596mm) 7.7" (195mm) My front tire size
205/55R16 24.9" (632mm) 8.1" (205mm) My rear tire size

As you can see Jordan's tires are a full inch bigger in diameter and nearly as wide as my front tires. Still seems like they would be ok until you look at the wheels. I looked through my CIP catalog, which fortunately lists backspacing for most of the wheels they sell. I have made an assumption that the difference between the bead width and maximum width of the wheel is 1 inch since this is important in converting from backspacing to the more useful offset. This is where it gets more interesting....

Wheel Diameter Bead Width Offset Backspacing Frontspacing

Stock Type 3 15" 4-1/2" 1.8" (46mm) 4.56" (116mm) 0.95" (24mm)
EMPI 5-spoke 15" 5- 1/2" 0.44" (11mm) 3.7" (94mm) 2.8" (71mm)
EMPI 8-spoke 15" 5-1/2" 0.75"(19mm) 4.0" (102mm) 2.5" (64mm)
Chrome VW 15" 4-1/2" 1.8" (46mm) 4.5" (114mm) 1.0" (25mm)
Chrome VW 15" 5-1/2" 1.0" (25mm) 4.3" (108mm) 2.2" (56mm)
AR Aero 15" 7" 1.6" (40mm) 5.6"(142mm) 2.4" (61mm)
AR Aero 16" 7" 1.7" (42mm) 5.6" (142mm) 2.4" (61mm)

So if you look at the frontspacing (a term I made up to describe the distance from the mounting face of the wheel to the outside wheel lip (frontspacing + backspacing = beadwidth + 1")), the EMPI 5-spoke and 8-spoke both stick out more than the 7" wide rims that I have on Sophy! The 5-spoke sticks out nearly 2" more than the stock Type 3 wheel! Doesn't surprise me that you are getting fender rub with the nearly 1" wider tire moved outward nearly 2" and being lowered 2 notches.

Offset is important and most of the aftermarket VW wheels are not going to be right for a Type 3. That being said it looks like the Chrome 4-1/2" VW wheels are actually type 3 wheels! Of course that assumes that CIP did not make a typo in their catalog. I would be leary and call there tech support and have them measure one before ordering. Anyone have first hand experience with the aftermarket chrome 4-1/2" VW wheels? Are they really 46mm offset?
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blankmange
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

perhaps we can ask Everett to make that a sticky and you won't have to dig it up... ever... again....
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes! Sticky this... It is valuable info since wheels/tires are always a question on this forum... Us Type 3 guys get the shaft with wheel choices.

For what it is worth, I bought those stock style wheels and they rubbed like hell at stock height with 195/15. They were a little better with 195/60/15 but looked like they stuck out too far. In the end I sold them and use either the stock steelies or OG rivieras.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's in the FAQ
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Crippler
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks everyone. lots of help. Smile
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Vee Dugg
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jaransonT3 wrote:


Here it is again.... Very Happy

OK, I did a little digging around on the web and in my CIP catalog and came up with some interesting numbers.

First, lets talk tire sizes. I made one assumption that our stock tire aspect ratio is 80%. We have discussed this before with 80%, 83%, and 85% as possible answers. I don't ever remember coming to a confident answer as to which was right. So for the sake of comparison I picked 80%. I have also ignored that fact the all tires bulge out some and am only comparing the tread width. So here we go.....

Tire Diameter Width Comments
165/80R15 25.4" (645mm) 6.5" (165mm) Stock tire size
185/65R15 24.5" (622mm) 7.3" (185mm) Jordan Wilks tire size
195/50R15 22.7" (576mm) 7.7" (195mm) Common aftermarket tire
195/55R15 23.5" (596mm) 7.7" (195mm) My front tire size
205/55R16 24.9" (632mm) 8.1" (205mm) My rear tire size

As you can see Jordan's tires are a full inch bigger in diameter and nearly as wide as my front tires. Still seems like they would be ok until you look at the wheels. I looked through my CIP catalog, which fortunately lists backspacing for most of the wheels they sell. I have made an assumption that the difference between the bead width and maximum width of the wheel is 1 inch since this is important in converting from backspacing to the more useful offset. This is where it gets more interesting....

Wheel Diameter Bead Width Offset Backspacing Frontspacing

Stock Type 3 15" 4-1/2" 1.8" (46mm) 4.56" (116mm) 0.95" (24mm)
EMPI 5-spoke 15" 5- 1/2" 0.44" (11mm) 3.7" (94mm) 2.8" (71mm)
EMPI 8-spoke 15" 5-1/2" 0.75"(19mm) 4.0" (102mm) 2.5" (64mm)
Chrome VW 15" 4-1/2" 1.8" (46mm) 4.5" (114mm) 1.0" (25mm)
Chrome VW 15" 5-1/2" 1.0" (25mm) 4.3" (108mm) 2.2" (56mm)
AR Aero 15" 7" 1.6" (40mm) 5.6"(142mm) 2.4" (61mm)
AR Aero 16" 7" 1.7" (42mm) 5.6" (142mm) 2.4" (61mm)

So if you look at the frontspacing (a term I made up to describe the distance from the mounting face of the wheel to the outside wheel lip (frontspacing + backspacing = beadwidth + 1")), the EMPI 5-spoke and 8-spoke both stick out more than the 7" wide rims that I have on Sophy! The 5-spoke sticks out nearly 2" more than the stock Type 3 wheel! Doesn't surprise me that you are getting fender rub with the nearly 1" wider tire moved outward nearly 2" and being lowered 2 notches.

Offset is important and most of the aftermarket VW wheels are not going to be right for a Type 3. That being said it looks like the Chrome 4-1/2" VW wheels are actually type 3 wheels! Of course that assumes that CIP did not make a typo in their catalog. I would be leary and call there tech support and have them measure one before ordering. Anyone have first hand experience with the aftermarket chrome 4-1/2" VW wheels? Are they really 46mm offset?


Wow....thanks for getting that together.
Anyone have experience with Formula Vee rims (see my avatar) and different tires? I have 165's on mine but 1" of clearance at the most in the back (stock height) and am hoping to lower the front one tick.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vee Dugg wrote:

Wow....thanks for getting that together.
Anyone have experience with Formula Vee rims (see my avatar) and different tires? I have 165's on mine but 1" of clearance at the most in the back (stock height) and am hoping to lower the front one tick.



I had always heard that turtlebacks (the wheel in your av) had a decent offset for T3's... I know Annie was running them...
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I had always heard that turtlebacks (the wheel in your av) had a decent offset for T3's


True, and they are even better for T34's !

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, but the 165's are less than an inch from rubbing in the read.
Would the lower profilecompensate for the wider tire?
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vee Dugg wrote:
OK, but the 165's are less than an inch from rubbing in the read.
Would the lower profilecompensate for the wider tire?


yes... I run 195/65's and have absolutely no rubbing with my front lowered 2 notches...
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 10:01 pm    Post subject: Interesting comparison of Porsche wheels Reply with quote

I saw this chart of Porsche wheels and it made me wonder what VW wheels would look like using a similar image:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


For reference of terms:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
[/img]
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi
I run 195/65's on my car, on my Type 1 offset 5.5 inch rims..
I did get some rubbing when going over bumps on the back, but the guard lips have been rolled now, so that's not a problem anymore..

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a stock suspension and use 195's in the front and 205's in the rear. No problems as all and I have driven over everything.
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