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air_cooled75 Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 376 Location: Lancaster, PA
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Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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165/80/r15 on the left, 155/60/r15 on the right.
_________________ 1970 Bug
1975 Bug
1963 Ghia |
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DarthDrew Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2015 Posts: 18 Location: Arkansas
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Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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so ive been reading quite a bit of this. lots of fantastic info. one thing im noticing though is maybe to much info. this thread is 10 years old at this point and 42 pages is alot with all the side tracks. may i sugest a new condensed sticky. id be willing to help but im new to vw and dont think i should do it alone. that way all the same questions that keep getting asked over and over again would be right up front. otherwise this is a spot on thread. cheers. |
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pwmcguire Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2011 Posts: 1108 Location: Kennesaw GA
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zodlaw Samba Member
Joined: July 27, 2005 Posts: 507 Location: Battle Ground, Wa.
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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cage66 wrote: |
bugninva wrote: |
piecutting the framehead will absolutely result in a better ride... not only does it get you lower, but it also gets the trailing arms back into part of their operating range.... the reason that the suckers bounce down the road is because when it's lowered beyond a certain point the trailing arms are actually moving *forward* in order for the suspension to move up... |
Yeah thats why I did it. Trying to "correct" the geometry.
Low&slow
Pie cut is when you cut a V into the frame head so the beam sits back and at a different angle. As stated by bugninva in stock suspension the arms go up and back but as you lower it the arms hit a point that they actually start to go forward. If you ever watch an air ride VW it is apparent.
This bug was built to be low. Pie cut front, tranny raise and extended spring plates made for a nice ride when a few inches off the ground. |
I know I am digging this back up but how much did you Pie cut out. I have seen 1/4, 5/16, 3/8. But not really any details on how much to cut. I was thinking of going 1 in as far back as I could go.
I pulled out of my drive way and all I am scraping is beam. If my beam was out of the way I could at least get a bit lower in the front. Yes I want to go low and I will be running air shocks with my adj beam. As for the rear I am relocating the shock mounts so I will have more travel. Please advise for pie cut. Oh one other thing, How far back did you cut and what drop did you get? _________________ 68 build that had been sitting for 18yr in a garage.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8119987#8119
Bagged 69 pile (SOLD)
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=591100&start=0 |
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iadubber Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2010 Posts: 177 Location: Farley, IA
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Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:55 am Post subject: |
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Ok, so I wanted to lower the front of my Bug. I got drop spindles, lowered ball joints, and a 4" adjustable beam/narrowed tie rods from valley autowerks.
My problem is steering. How do I center the steering box? I seem to have only one turn left and 1.5-2 turns right. I measured my stock beam and it was 4" from the bracket to the middle of the mounting hole so that's the measurement I went off of. I can't seem to get it right.
Is there any tricks to centering and aligning the steering box since the beam has no nubs or pitman limiters on it?
What angle is the pitman arm in relation to the beam generally on an aligned lowered beetle? Right now my pitman arm is straight in line with the steering tube when the wheels are pointed straight and the wheel level/center. I am thinking this is wrong but I can't get it right either. Also the steering feels tighter and now squeaks inside the car from rubbing so I've got something really messed up. |
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ashman40 Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007 Posts: 15982 Location: North Florida, USA
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Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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I've not had to do this but shouldn't it be something like:
Center the steering box (turn stop to stop counting the number of turns; center to the half-way point). This means there is the same amount of movement left-right.
Attach the tie rods and generally center the front wheels.
Bring the inner end of the tie rods together. Install the steering box so the pitman arm is near the spot where the inner tie rod ends come together. If necessary remove the pitman arm and rotate it on the steering spindle so the end of the arm is where the inner tie rods are. Do not rotate the steering box, you want it to remain centered.
Mount the steering box on the upper beam. It may be necessary to grind off the nubs on the beam. Some weld new nubs for the steering box clamps to grab on to, but it may be possible to just tighten the clamps enough to prevent it from rotating, even without nubs.
The wheels should now be centered with the steering box in the middle of it range of movement. This allows about the same amount of rotation left and right.
Center the steering box in its range of motion and then mount the steering wheel (centered). It is possible to maintain the center of steering movement by rotating the tie rods in opposite directions. If the car doesn't track straight while the steering wheel is centered you can adjust this by lengthening one tie rod while shortening the other. This moves both wheels in the same direction without moving the steering wheel. _________________ AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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iadubber Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2010 Posts: 177 Location: Farley, IA
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Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 7:56 am Post subject: |
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ashman40 wrote: |
I've not had to do this but shouldn't it be something like:
Center the steering box (turn stop to stop counting the number of turns; center to the half-way point). This means there is the same amount of movement left-right.
Attach the tie rods and generally center the front wheels.
Bring the inner end of the tie rods together. Install the steering box so the pitman arm is near the spot where the inner tie rod ends come together. If necessary remove the pitman arm and rotate it on the steering spindle so the end of the arm is where the inner tie rods are. Do not rotate the steering box, you want it to remain centered.
Mount the steering box on the upper beam. It may be necessary to grind off the nubs on the beam. Some weld new nubs for the steering box clamps to grab on to, but it may be possible to just tighten the clamps enough to prevent it from rotating, even without nubs.
The wheels should now be centered with the steering box in the middle of it range of movement. This allows about the same amount of rotation left and right.
Center the steering box in its range of motion and then mount the steering wheel (centered). It is possible to maintain the center of steering movement by rotating the tie rods in opposite directions. If the car doesn't track straight while the steering wheel is centered you can adjust this by lengthening one tie rod while shortening the other. This moves both wheels in the same direction without moving the steering wheel. |
I'll start over and give that a shot. I was initially centering the wheel and not the box, so I am guessing that was my issue. Now that I know I can center the box, then get the wheels lined up straight, and after that pull the wheel and get that centered. Thanks |
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iancorado Samba Member
Joined: February 23, 2014 Posts: 24 Location: North Wilkesboro
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Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 4:57 pm Post subject: Still riding too high |
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Stock rebuilt beam, 2.5 inch drop spindles, a lot of heavy weight under the hood and it still looks like stock ride height. I have taken off the stock sway bar and oem style shocks, because with those mounted I had zero.zero suspension travel. I can live with the ride height. But what shocks and sway bar should I add? |
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iancorado Samba Member
Joined: February 23, 2014 Posts: 24 Location: North Wilkesboro
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Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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I had some lowered EMPI shocks lying around and installed them, much softer but I feel the lowered height of the shocks artificially compresses the suspension. I love the way it looks but realistically its not going to work, I need to buy the regular stock height EMPI oil filled shocks. Also my sway bar was flipped for some reason. Not sure if that had anything to do with why the suspension had no travel or not. |
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billfred1 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2014 Posts: 287 Location: Bloomington, IN
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Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:48 am Post subject: |
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So narrowing a stock BJ beam 4" will still allow the use of shocks?
Just wanted to clarify, there doesn't seem to be much room. _________________ Bill
1966 Beetle |
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iadubber Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2010 Posts: 177 Location: Farley, IA
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Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:39 am Post subject: |
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billfred1 wrote: |
So narrowing a stock BJ beam 4" will still allow the use of shocks?
Just wanted to clarify, there doesn't seem to be much room. |
You'll need to section the back of the shock tower |
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billfred1 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2014 Posts: 287 Location: Bloomington, IN
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Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 5:53 am Post subject: |
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iadubber wrote: |
billfred1 wrote: |
So narrowing a stock BJ beam 4" will still allow the use of shocks?
Just wanted to clarify, there doesn't seem to be much room. |
You'll need to section the back of the shock tower |
Any links to how you "section the sock tower"?
Does a 3" narrow fit without mods? _________________ Bill
1966 Beetle |
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ashman40 Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007 Posts: 15982 Location: North Florida, USA
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Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 6:04 am Post subject: |
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Those aftermarket wheels may rub the lower ball joint. It may actually be limiting the motion of travel for the ball joint. Take a look at the back of the wheels, do you see this?
_________________ AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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ashman40 Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007 Posts: 15982 Location: North Florida, USA
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Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 6:18 am Post subject: |
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billfred1 wrote: |
Any links to how you "section the sock tower"? |
You are already in the correct thread. For me it is around page 36...
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1...;start=704
billfred1 wrote: |
Does a 3" narrow fit without mods? |
3" narrowed beams w/o "sectioning" will sit right against the inner fender well on both sides and the fender well may need "persuading" with a hammer to get the beam fully in place. If you don't want to force anythng, 2.5" narrowed beams are as close as you can get w/o touching the body.
If you want to keep shocks and want to go very narrow you can also look at aftermarket beams with custom shock towers similar to these:
_________________ AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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Jerkhalter Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2015 Posts: 94 Location: Queen Creek, Arizona
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Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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ashman40 wrote: |
Those aftermarket wheels may rub the lower ball joint. It may actually be limiting the motion of travel for the ball joint. Take a look at the back of the wheels, do you see this?
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First of all GREAT THREAD!
I recently ordered empi drop spindals and have the same wheels, I really hope they dont rub in the BJ, but then again Im guessing it depends on my tire side wall diamiater huh....... |
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Jerkhalter Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2015 Posts: 94 Location: Queen Creek, Arizona
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Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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Jerkhalter wrote: |
ashman40 wrote: |
Those aftermarket wheels may rub the lower ball joint. It may actually be limiting the motion of travel for the ball joint. Take a look at the back of the wheels, do you see this?
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First of all GREAT THREAD!
I recently ordered empi drop spindals and have the same wheels, I really hope they dont rub on the BJ, but then again Im guessing it depends on my tire side wall diamiater huh....... |
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advinnie Samba Member
Joined: November 18, 2011 Posts: 1389 Location: oxfordshire
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Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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Glenn wrote: |
I have a standard.
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Mate did you get this drop by just using an adjustable beam or did you use dropped spindles as well? |
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VW_MAN_73 Samba Member
Joined: November 18, 2005 Posts: 957 Location: New Port Richey, Fl
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Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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Not sure if this is the right place t post but didn't want to make another thread.
I previously had a 5" narrowed beam on my 73 beetle, with drop spindles, adjusters and 4" stock wheels up front with 135's on them. I loved the look of the tuck and the steer-ability. I brought the car back to stock height and now going to change it back. I just purchase new 5" wide sprint stars with 4" backspace and plan on running 135's up front. I had the beam off the ground 5/8" previously and want to know how narrow I should narrow the new beam, I am looking to make it where its not going to rub real bad on the inner body. I was thinking 6" or 7" narrow to get the tuck, would this be good since the wheels are wider?
Also lowering 3 outer splines out back and want to know if the 4" backspace going to cause any issues? I was going to use 165's or 195/50 but don't want to rub. Didn't have issues with stock 5" wheels on 165's at 3 clicks.
Thank you for your time! _________________ 1973 beetle |
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Mccurdy7778 Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2015 Posts: 54 Location: Seattle WA
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Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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Okay so does anyone have any experience with a single airbag in the front beam like this? I want to build one. The only part I don't understand is how to attach the upper part of the bag to the leafs. Do I need to mod a adjuster or something? Or make a sleeve? Has anyone done this?
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legotech7 Samba Member
Joined: May 09, 2009 Posts: 879 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 5:12 am Post subject: |
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I believe the leaves are omitted completely from the beam. If you do a search, there are beams already made with this bag set up you can purchase... If I remember correctly the leaves are replaced with thru rods. |
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