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brntrtt5
Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2004
Posts: 85
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 Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 6:43 pm Post subject: fuel injection verses carbs |
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| Ok here it goes I have this cool 69 but I am trying to decide carbs or keep fuel injection i know purist say keep it stock but what is the most efficient as far as maintainance what controls the injectors are there anycomputers or sensors with the injection |
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Russ Wolfe
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2004
Posts: 25187
Location: Central Iowa
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| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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The VW FI is one of the simplest around. It is very dependable. Probably more so that carbs. My '71 FB will sit in the garage all winter long, but when I get ready to drive it in the spring, I can go out, open the door, not even get in the seat, put the key in the switch, turn the key on a couple of times, to prime the pump. Hit the starter, and away it will go.
I have both carbed T-3, and FI T-3's. I prefer the FI for dependability.
I have most of the factory FI manuals on my web site if you are interested in looking at them. I have the one that Bosch put out to explain how their system works to mechanics.
http://classicvw.org/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=60&g2_navId=x97835a36
http://classicvw.org/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core...=x97835a36
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SquareTone
Samba Member
Joined: July 10, 2003
Posts: 1204
Location: Jenks, Oklahoma
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| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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What Russ said (always listen to what Russ says about FI).
Be sure to take a good look at all the wiring. Cracked wires and bad connections are what will kill you on this system. Don't forget to check the wiring to the fuel pump up front and the battery. My daughter's '69 had some crazy problems - turned out to be a corroded positive cable on the battery.
If you run into trouble with the FI there's great help available here and on type3.org.
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Tony
'70 Fastback AT/FI (daily driver (exept when the starter won't work, or it's out of gas, or I don't go anywhere, ...))
"...it is a well known fact, that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to it."
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22728
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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"fuel injection verses carbs"
What the hell are "carbs"?  
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Air_Cooled_Nut
Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2004
Posts: 3040
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 12:23 am Post subject: Re: fuel injection verses carbs |
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| brntrtt5 wrote: |
| Ok here it goes I have this cool 69 but I am trying to decide carbs or keep fuel injection i know purist say keep it stock but what is the most efficient as far as maintainance what controls the injectors are there anycomputers or sensors with the injection |
I'm not a purist and I say keep the FI. Get a Bentley shop manual as it will help you to understand and test. FI is waaay more efficient than carbs in any kind of weather and altitude.
FI has sensors to monitor and adjust the system. But they are simple and few, particularly when compared to today's FI systems.
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Toby http://www.aircoolednut.com/
Did I mention that I'm an original Darksider?
'72 VW Squareback, 2007cc, GB 5-speed, rag top; '76 VW Riviera Penthouse Sundowner 2.0L; 2015 Audi S5 Cabby w/Stage II APR; '06 Ducati Sport Classic 1000; '14 Ducati Diavel Strada
The First Invasion |
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glutamodo 
The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 26325
Location: Douglas, WY
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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the type 3 FI is OK, but it is primitive by today's standards. And as a mechanic trying to troubleshoot some of those systems, I hated working on them sometimes. There were times I'd troubleshoot every frigging component and wire in the system and still it wouldn't run for crap. But when they run good, they are very nice runners, and if it does run good I'd keep it.
-Andy |
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Russ Wolfe
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2004
Posts: 25187
Location: Central Iowa
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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There are not many things to go wrong with a D-Jet system. I have never had a problem troubleshooting them with just simple multimeter. Most of the time, the problem was not in the FI , just a bad plug wire or a faulty voltage regulator. Something very simple.
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22728
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Russ Wolfe wrote: |
| There are not many things to go wrong with a D-Jet system. I have never had a problem troubleshooting them with just simple multimeter. Most of the time, the problem was not in the FI , just a bad plug wire or a faulty voltage regulator. Something very simple. |
Don't forget the most common FI problem... The loose nut behind the wheel!
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| Bryan67 wrote: |
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brntrtt5
Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2004
Posts: 85
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| Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:27 am Post subject: |
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The loose nut is excactly what I'm concerned about as a shadetree mechanic with some electronics behind me, mainly custom autosound
installation, I have been looking over the box of parts that came with the car and found that most of the parts seem to be missing. I went through
the manuals at the link and I think I can follow the diagrams pretty good.
My next question is the most important piece is missing. I opened up the
panel on the drivers side and the brain is missing. How much is this going to cost me to replace these components or am I better off to find a complete motor and start from there?????? |
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AJ99
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2005
Posts: 87
Location: Bakersfield, CA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 2:15 am Post subject: |
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Well I have a 71 fastback and it was converted to duel carbs before I bought it and now I wish it still was. I have a lot of problems with it as some people know on here lol. Also it is kinda a pain in the but with duel carbs in the morning since it gets in the low 30s now, I always have problems starting it....
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blankmange
Type 3 Darksider
Joined: July 17, 2004
Posts: 11498
Location: Bloßer Stahl-preapocalyptic MidCoast
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:08 am Post subject: |
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| brntrtt5 wrote: |
My next question is the most important piece is missing. I opened up the
panel on the drivers side and the brain is missing. How much is this going to cost me to replace these components or am I better off to find a complete motor and start from there?????? |
watch eBay and the classifieds here, the ECU's do turn up; additionally, when you are ready to start collecting pieces for the FI system, there are several members here that hoard FI parts and will sell them (usually) at reasonable prices...
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póg mo thóin
Certified DHS Technician
Samba Member # 24517 |
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R.Rabbit
Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2003
Posts: 1565
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:34 am Post subject: |
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Well, if no one else is gonna support carbs I will!! Carbs rule!!! FI, what the heck is FI!?! 
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Kenaneu
Samba Member
Joined: March 20, 2005
Posts: 156
Location: San Francisco, CA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:40 am Post subject: |
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| R.Rabbit wrote: |
| Well, if no one else is gonna support carbs I will!! Carbs rule!!! FI, what the heck is FI!?! |
*sigh*  |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22728
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| R.Rabbit wrote: |
| Well, if no one else is gonna support carbs I will!! Carbs rule!!! FI, what the heck is FI!?! |
According to Dr. Atkins, you must be a fatass.
And, FI stands for "Freaking Ignoramus", which Webster's defines as "a Type 3 owner who removes fuel injection in favour of carbs".
It's true. Look it up!
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| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
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howiesfamily
Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2004
Posts: 858
Location: Panther City, Texas
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22431
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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| R.Rabbit wrote: |
| Well, if no one else is gonna support carbs I will!! Carbs rule!!! FI, what the heck is FI!?! |
To be honest, my 10 dollar swap meet carbs (in my Notch) have been working pretty good for the last 2 years.  Also, when you buy a car with no motor, and all the FI stuff is removed (my 71 Roadster 2 project), it doesn't take a brain surgen to figure out carbs are usually the cheapest way of getting it to run again. I bought my wife's 70 Fastback in 1989 and it was already converted to carbs by the PO. I drove that car for over 10 years without ANY carb trouble. My wife's been driving it as a summer only car for the last 6 (with the same carbs), so they can't be as bad as everyone makes them out to be.  I am however going to get my feet wet with FI, when I install it in my Roadster along with the t-4 engine. 
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| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
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| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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AJ99
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2005
Posts: 87
Location: Bakersfield, CA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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Well I like my duel carbs on my 71 Fasty....It is just the fact of starting it in the morning when it was running...I cant figue out why it isnt running now though. I think it is the voltage regulator... so yeaqh but back to the carbs...I never said i dislike them.... I just think that FI is a lot easier to have..... 
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Kenaneu
Samba Member
Joined: March 20, 2005
Posts: 156
Location: San Francisco, CA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:14 am Post subject: |
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Nothing says carbs can't and don't work, but FI is just flat-out nice. I think those of us who run it have a certain 'school spirit' if you will about it, since it's often referred to as a pain or unreliable, when it is anything but.
Yes, it can seem a bit more complex, but once you take a moment to read up, test a bit and understand it, it will provide you with a more efficient, great running car with very few headaches. And personally, I'd take troubleshooting FI any day over fiddling with jets, venturis, clean-outs, floats, linkages, etc. any day.
So yeah, not a carb hater here. Just an FI lover.  |
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metropoj
Samba Member
Joined: April 23, 2004
Posts: 1343
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 6:46 am Post subject: |
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The FI is nice, and simple compared to todays set ups. parts are somewhat available, most of the problem plaguing the systems are not faulty components, but brittle wiring and loose connections as stated. The D_Jet is a nice EFI system.
You can put CIS injection on too and that is nice and simple from the 80's rabbits and Golfs...
Carbs will work nice too once tuned up. Try the injection first, or try a club members car with EFI and one with Carbs, the EFI pulls strong and true.... |
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vdub
Samba Member
Joined: September 07, 2003
Posts: 442
Location: Valley Springs, Ca.
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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| If you are running a stock motor I would say use what works but the FI will not support a performance motor. |
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