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Big Hoss
Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2011
Posts: 215
Location: NJ
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 Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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You only need to plug the pump. Putting a second plug in the case only wastes a good plug. It's not necessary.
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imuglykidjoe
Samba Member
Joined: August 26, 2006
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:51 am Post subject: THANKS FOR THE DIAGRAM |
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I had the same question, thanks for the diagram.  |
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traderpats
Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2011
Posts: 40
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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You have to plug the pump to start the oil bypass. It would be redundant to also tap and plug the galley leading from the pump. You can certainly do so if you wish if you feel "it's better that way". It certainly won't hurt anything if you do both.
I recently installed the Berg kit and I didn't plug the galley from the pump. It wasn't mentioned in the installation directions either. I've had absolutely zero problems.... |
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 15985
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Big Hoss wrote: |
| You only need to plug the pump. |
x2.
The concern over a plug in the case oil passage is because there will be oil coming from the return fitting trying to go back down towards the oil pump outlet where it could try to seep out between the oil pump to case mating surface. The second plug would prevent this seepage. This implies that in a normal setup there would also be seepage as the mating surfaces are the same. I could see the need for the second plug in a race engine where a pump with larger gears was used.
Another down side to plugging the case is should someone want to rebuild the case later for a normal pump setup, they could easily overlook the second plug and would have zero oil pressure at the oil galley.
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AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road  }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
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johnnypan
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007
Posts: 7431
Location: sackamenna
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| it takes all of 15 minutes to plug the oil passage when the case is split and forever prevent the possibilty of an oil leak at the pump flange which to fix by plugging would require you to split the case and do it...do you absolutely need to plug the passage? no,the pump plug will work.... but your a fool not to plug the oil passage while your there to stop galley oil, under pressure from either leaking back into the case at the pump body and dropping oil pressure,or leaking out the flange... |
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jays
Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2010
Posts: 599
Location: miami
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:21 pm Post subject: Re: type 3 full flow set up |
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[/img][/quote]
now thats a clean engine if i ever knew what one looked like 
i thought clean engines were myths |
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BWD
Samba Mailman
Joined: August 23, 2002
Posts: 2154
Location: In bed.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| ashman40 wrote: |
| Big Hoss wrote: |
| You only need to plug the pump. |
x2.
The concern over a plug in the case oil passage is because there will be oil coming from the return fitting trying to go back down towards the oil pump outlet where it could try to seep out between the oil pump to case mating surface. The second plug would prevent this seepage. This implies that in a normal setup there would also be seepage as the mating surfaces are the same. I could see the need for the second plug in a race engine where a pump with larger gears was used.
Another down side to plugging the case is should someone want to rebuild the case later for a normal pump setup, they could easily overlook the second plug and would have zero oil pressure at the oil galley. |
I'm sorry, I don't care what the next fool does, I do what I want to my car! 
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BWD
JHC
member #2850
1966 Beetle
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johnnypan
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007
Posts: 7431
Location: sackamenna
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| Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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| BWD wrote: |
| ashman40 wrote: |
| Big Hoss wrote: |
| You only need to plug the pump. |
x2.
The concern over a plug in the case oil passage is because there will be oil coming from the return fitting trying to go back down towards the oil pump outlet where it could try to seep out between the oil pump to case mating surface. The second plug would prevent this seepage. This implies that in a normal setup there would also be seepage as the mating surfaces are the same. I could see the need for the second plug in a race engine where a pump with larger gears was used.
Another down side to plugging the case is should someone want to rebuild the case later for a normal pump setup, they could easily overlook the second plug and would have zero oil pressure at the oil galley. |
I'm sorry, I don't care what the next fool does, I do what I want to my car! |
Hey...I did it to your car!!!!
btw..you use a pump with larger gears when going full flow.. |
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BWD
Samba Mailman
Joined: August 23, 2002
Posts: 2154
Location: In bed.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| johnnypan wrote: |
| BWD wrote: |
| ashman40 wrote: |
| Big Hoss wrote: |
| You only need to plug the pump. |
x2.
The concern over a plug in the case oil passage is because there will be oil coming from the return fitting trying to go back down towards the oil pump outlet where it could try to seep out between the oil pump to case mating surface. The second plug would prevent this seepage. This implies that in a normal setup there would also be seepage as the mating surfaces are the same. I could see the need for the second plug in a race engine where a pump with larger gears was used.
Another down side to plugging the case is should someone want to rebuild the case later for a normal pump setup, they could easily overlook the second plug and would have zero oil pressure at the oil galley. |
I'm sorry, I don't care what the next fool does, I do what I want to my car! |
Hey...I did it to your car!!!!
btw..you use a pump with larger gears when going full flow.. |
Yeah, well I wanted you to....frickin' diva!!
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BWD
JHC
member #2850
1966 Beetle
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yamaducci
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Joined: March 30, 2010
Posts: 2335
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:03 am Post subject: |
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The right way to full-flow is to plug the oil pump or buy one made for it with only the intake port and to plug the case galley. Inviting leaks or pressure loss is an amateur mistake. The other thing to watch out for when tapping straight-in instead of from the side is splitting the side of the case along the mold seam. When using the tap; take a couple bites then back out half turn then bite some more then back out and keep the chips out of the tap with air or lube.
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memosutra
Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2012
Posts: 12
Location: Puerto Rico
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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| I also want to know if the case has to be plugged also. Or one its ok |
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flyboat
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Joined: April 21, 2010
Posts: 2752
Location: Bath NC
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| memosutra wrote: |
| I also want to know if the case has to be plugged also. Or one its ok |
There seems to be quite a debate on this. You must plug the outlet side of the oil pump, this forces oil out to the remote filter. When it returns from the filter it is tapped into the oil galley. At that location the oil can flow two ways. One way is teh normal path to lubricate the engine. The other path is down the oil galley that goes to the oil pump. This galley is actually the oil pump outlet galley. Oil will flow th eroute of least resistance. The oil pump to case fit is not a press fit or a perfect fit. Therefore when theoil returns to the case from the filter, it will try to flow down the factory pump outley galley and oil will go between the case and the pump housing, discharging into the sump. This is not necessarily a problem, but there will be less oil pressure throuout the oiling system due to this fluid loss.
You should add the second plug into the discharge galley in the case to prevent this from happening. It sounds redundant but it is not. Plug the discharge of the pump and plug the galley the pump used to discharge into This will keep the oil flowing in a positive direction all the time
What happens if you don't add the second plug. Usually nothing except some small oil pressure loss. But if your pump to case clearance is larger than normal, it will increase the amount of lost pressure.
Two plugs are better than one
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Cadaver
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2012
Posts: 2338
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:18 am Post subject: |
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old posts , alive
(needs , has, must,).
I'D SAY NEEDS (my vote) but YMMV ! on FIT.
yes, all true;
but not this.
| Quote: |
| they could easily overlook the second plug |
no rebuilder "worth salt" skips gallery cleaning or full inspection
but the poster never said , new case or used.
used was implied.
if that is true the pump may not fit to well in all locations in the case ring.
40 years old it is.... huh?
it IS (WAS) an interference fit, like .005 " (IIRC i have this spec, if needed)
if you like it too leak on the return path that is you decision
not mine or others.
you can tap it and plug it with any NPT plug that fits.
brass or alum.
all major bug parts seller sells a kit to that and for all gallery plugs pulled during the gallery purge (40 years of crap in there. for sure)
to let it leak or not. that is the question.?
but when it left the factory it did not leak on this pressure side.
id bet. 
but then again. this is not then , this is now, 40 years later.
I did make sure to check mine for fit very carefully, Mikes and Bore gauges.
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jlex
Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2009
Posts: 2902
Location: NW Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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I have a B series engine (SP 1970) w/ the muffler pre-heat tube coming up on the left side. Has anyone been able to install a remote filter system on that kind of engine? Do you have to remove the engine and/or split the case to do it? I've thought of getting one of those oil pump covers that integrate the oil filter connection but from what I've read my muffler's pre heat tube will be in the way... I hate the idea of unfiltered oil...
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'70 std. "Elsie"
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flyboat
Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2010
Posts: 2752
Location: Bath NC
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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Get a remote oil filter pump plate and a remote oil filter mount, and you can put it anywhere you want to. This is not the unit that attaches to the pump with the filter attached to it. The system I suggest is very common. the pump plate has two ports one to the new filter and one as a return back to the pump. Most people install the remote filter adapter in the rrear of teh left rear wheel well. you do not have to remove the engine
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jlex
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Joined: January 23, 2009
Posts: 2902
Location: NW Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:54 am Post subject: |
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Hey Flyboat; thanks for the info. I was thinking that tapping into the case was required unless you could use one of the cover plate/filter contraptions. I'll have to try to find a website that sells that plate.
If those adapter cover plates are available then why does anyone bother to tap into the case? Maybe a better flow w/ tapping?
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'70 std. "Elsie"
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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76938
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:57 am Post subject: |
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CB sells the Maxi 3 pump that has both inlet and outlet ports. It's more restrictive than the traditional method if drilling and tapping the case, but it works.
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Cadaver
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2012
Posts: 2338
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:51 am Post subject: |
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there 4 ways (terse) (each has pros an cons)
filter on pump cover (like mex cars)
filter remote way1 below (at rebuild)
filter remote 2 hoses on pump plate
filter remote and return line to rear relief , plug cap.
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torsionbar
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Joined: December 11, 2010
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:37 am Post subject: |
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woah, i'm digging that avatar! 
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SBD
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2012
Posts: 3269
Location: SOUTH DAKOTA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:15 pm Post subject: Re: type 3 full flow set up |
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| kombi211 wrote: |
in my searches i have found a post where someone is taping and plugging a case for full flow a little different. Its being used in a type3 which is a little tight in there with the full flow plate to start. but with this set up looks like there is no need for the oil pump cover upgrade and even having to block off the oil pump. By what i see is it flows threw normal oil passage and when it get to the blockage in the block it is forced out to the filter and the back in the the case on the other side of the plug in the case. Looks nice and clean to me and you could end up saving your self some cash that you can invest some where else in the motor build.
[/img] |
Is there anybody here that's actually done this mod? It would be perfect for the new engine I plan to build. The exhaust I have fits too close to the oil pump to allow for a filter pump or a normal single outlet or in/out full flow pump cover. I'd appreciate any advice anybody could give me as far as size & depth to drill, sizes to tap, exactly where to locate the holes, etc. I'd like to do it myself if I could. I live in the sticks, the nearest machine shop is over 30 miles away... Really doesn't look too difficult if a person is careful. |
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