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german_metal
Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2003
Posts: 411
Location: Mile High Wolfsburg
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 Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 10:27 am Post subject: Upgrade from 6V to 12V...Should I? |
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Looking for opinions on this. Here is the situation:
I have just about everything to upgrade my '63 Notch from 6V to 12V. Before I tackle this though I am thinking about selling the car. Another VW came into my life which might force the sale of this Notch. So the question is would it be worth it to upgrade to 12V first and then sell or keep it at 6V? The Notch is the one in my avatar and not exactly stock as it is. Opinions? |
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Miguel Arroyo
Samba Member
Joined: April 02, 2004
Posts: 3122
Location: Miami Beach, Florida
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| Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 10:40 am Post subject: |
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Stock cars are bringing high prices now a days. If you live in an area that does not get very cold (mile high  ) I would just clean all the electrical connections (grease, dirt, rust, etc.) and I would make sure they are tight. Also check the battery ground strap is in good shape. |
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german_metal
Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2003
Posts: 411
Location: Mile High Wolfsburg
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| Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 10:56 am Post subject: |
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There is an issue somewhere in the recharging system, either generator or voltage regulator which is why I decided to do the 12V conversion in the first place. So I either fix the 6V issue or upgrade to 12V. I am in Denver, not exactly the tropics  |
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6T5 square
Samba Member
Joined: September 15, 2005
Posts: 1084
Location: Dover, DE
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| Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:17 am Post subject: |
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It depends how much money you want to sink into a car that will be sold anyhow. Switching to 12 volt properly will cost you a couple of hundred if done properly. Finding someone to do an electrical check shouldn't cost too much (some shops will bench test for a small fee)
I would think though that a car closer to stock might appeal to more purists.
Just my 2cents
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John
65 square 1500S (weezer) sold but always on my mind
60 beetle (Ned)
Quoting John Muir -- Open the rear boot. Get out the stool and sit down. Contemplate the air-cooled beauty before you. - How to Keep Your Volkswagen Alive -- Step-By-Step Procedures for the Compleat Idiot |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22728
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:42 am Post subject: |
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What exactly is the charging issue you're having?
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| Bryan67 wrote: |
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german_metal
Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2003
Posts: 411
Location: Mile High Wolfsburg
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| Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Tram wrote: |
| What exactly is the charging issue you're having? |
The battery is not being recharged (Yes, I have tried a couple of different batteries). So that leads me to the generator or VR, although I haven't tested it yet. I guess I could try to just fix that issue instead of going to 12V, although I have a lot of parts for the 12V conversion now (including the DDB alternator kit). So would the car be worth more 6V or 12V? Hmmm....maybe I should try to keep it.....  |
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hoss
Samba Member
Joined: May 01, 2003
Posts: 788
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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Well if its an original or mostly original car i would keep it 6-volt. I would start by trying a different voltage regulator.. checking your ground strap... checking the output on the generator at idle etc.
Why are you thinking of selling the car?
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'54 Kombi | '57 356 Coupe | '57 Samba | '62 Notchback | '63 Beetle (36k Original Miles) | '66 Pigalle Sunroof Squareback | '70 Westy |
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notchboy
Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2002
Posts: 22462
Location: Escondido CA
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reay
Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2004
Posts: 675
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| Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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It would cost a bunch -
Wouldn't you need to put in a new starter, VR,Battery, bulbs and on and on, plus a new flywheel, (And while you have the motor out, a new clutch,,,)
Stock sounds good to me
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Tom Reay
Da weiss man, was man hat!
68 Karmann Ghia Sunroof / auto T345
66 Standard Microbus T221
66 1200a Standard 115 with factory ragtop |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22728
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| reay wrote: |
It would cost a bunch -
Wouldn't you need to put in a new starter, VR,Battery, bulbs and on and on, plus a new flywheel, (And while you have the motor out, a new clutch,,,)
Stock sounds good to me |
You don't have to replace the starter/ flywheel. A starter is just an induction motor, therefore, the starter will work with either 6 or 12 volts, only at 12 volts it will turn twice as fast.
If you have a DDB alternator that is made to fit a 6v fan housing, it won't be that bad. If it's an alternator that is meant to replace a 12v generator, however, then you are in for changing the fan housing.
Change the charging system and fan housing (if necessary).
Change your bulbs and relays.
Use a Chrysler ballast resistor in the line for power to the clock and OE radio (if you have one), and another in line for power to the wiper switch.
Change the battery.
That's about it. You can always sell all the original 6 volt stuff with the car in case the buyer wants to convert it back to original.
That said, I still think it'll be way the hell easier to just fix it. Is your generator light lighting up when you switch on the key and then does it go out when you rev the engine?
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| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
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german_metal
Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2003
Posts: 411
Location: Mile High Wolfsburg
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| Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| notchboy wrote: |
He has another VW in his life and is cheating on his notch.  |
True, I am cheating on my Notch for a '65 Westy.....although I would like to keep the Notch as I love that car and it certainly is the best driving VW I have ever owned.
| Tram wrote: |
| That said, I still think it'll be way the hell easier to just fix it. Is your generator light lighting up when you switch on the key and then does it go out when you rev the engine? |
No, the light goes out. I can go about 50 miles without using headlights/radio before battery dies again. I guess I should try replacing the VR?
It is a lot to switch over to 12v, I agree. Maybe I should have thought this through more before I bought the DDB alternator kit. Not sure if it is for the 6V fan housing or not. How would I tell?
Thanks for everyones input so far.... |
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Russ Wolfe
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Joined: October 08, 2004
Posts: 25187
Location: Central Iowa
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:37 am Post subject: |
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Check with Martin, He has probably done it before, or knows the differences.
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6T5 square
Samba Member
Joined: September 15, 2005
Posts: 1084
Location: Dover, DE
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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You dont have to change any fan housing. The alternator is small enough that it sits right up against the fan housing. You should be able to use the same rubber seal as well.
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John
65 square 1500S (weezer) sold but always on my mind
60 beetle (Ned)
Quoting John Muir -- Open the rear boot. Get out the stool and sit down. Contemplate the air-cooled beauty before you. - How to Keep Your Volkswagen Alive -- Step-By-Step Procedures for the Compleat Idiot |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22728
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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| ghia_bus_guy wrote: |
| notchboy wrote: |
| He has another VW in his life and is cheating on his notch. |
True, I am cheating on my Notch for a '65 Westy.....although I would like to keep the Notch as I love that car and it certainly is the best driving VW I have ever owned.
| Tram wrote: |
| That said, I still think it'll be way the hell easier to just fix it. Is your generator light lighting up when you switch on the key and then does it go out when you rev the engine? |
No, the light goes out. I can go about 50 miles without using headlights/radio before battery dies again. I guess I should try replacing the VR?
It is a lot to switch over to 12v, I agree. Maybe I should have thought this through more before I bought the DDB alternator kit. Not sure if it is for the 6V fan housing or not. How would I tell?
Thanks for everyones input so far.... |
It almost sounds to me as though you could use some battery cables. Sometimes they'll corrode up inside the insulation. If you find that to be the case, I'd replace the + cable, the - cable, and also the strap from the trans to the body.
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Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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Erik G
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13281
Location: Tejas!
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:20 am Post subject: |
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| Tram wrote: |
| ghia_bus_guy wrote: |
| notchboy wrote: |
| He has another VW in his life and is cheating on his notch. |
True, I am cheating on my Notch for a '65 Westy.....although I would like to keep the Notch as I love that car and it certainly is the best driving VW I have ever owned.
| Tram wrote: |
| That said, I still think it'll be way the hell easier to just fix it. Is your generator light lighting up when you switch on the key and then does it go out when you rev the engine? |
No, the light goes out. I can go about 50 miles without using headlights/radio before battery dies again. I guess I should try replacing the VR?
It is a lot to switch over to 12v, I agree. Maybe I should have thought this through more before I bought the DDB alternator kit. Not sure if it is for the 6V fan housing or not. How would I tell?
Thanks for everyones input so far.... |
It almost sounds to me as though you could use some battery cables. Sometimes they'll corrode up inside the insulation. If you find that to be the case, I'd replace the + cable, the - cable, and also the strap from the trans to the body. |
that and the genny brushes. start the car and see if you are getting 14.4v at the genny. then the regulator. then the battery.
a type 1/2 6v regulator will work, it just wont have the hold down screws in the correct place to mount it under your seat. i went for a year using a type 1 6v regulator I pried off the top of a T1 genny in my notch. I only osed one mounting screw because of the different mounting but I had no problems.
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vdub
Samba Member
Joined: September 07, 2003
Posts: 442
Location: Valley Springs, Ca.
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 8:23 am Post subject: |
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What exactly is a DDB alternator kit.
Dose anyone know the part number. |
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blankmange
Type 3 Darksider
Joined: July 17, 2004
Posts: 11498
Location: Bloßer Stahl-preapocalyptic MidCoast
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 8:35 am Post subject: |
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| vdub wrote: |
What exactly is a DDB alternator kit.
Dose anyone know the part number. |
http://www.theddb.com/new/
under 'DDB Parts' is the alternator kit...
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póg mo thóin
Certified DHS Technician
Samba Member # 24517 |
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GjMan
Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2004
Posts: 822
Location: Grand Junction, CO
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Hey, just bought a 66 Squareback that the PO helpfully changed over to 12V. Since I'm a stock vintage kinda guy, I am now changing it back to 6V like it should be. Maybe I could take some of those 63 6V components off your hands? I need a starter. And a bunch of 6V light bulbs. And a turn signal relay. I've already located a generator and the correct 6V fan housing and pulley. |
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vdub
Samba Member
Joined: September 07, 2003
Posts: 442
Location: Valley Springs, Ca.
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| GjMan wrote: |
| Hey, just bought a 66 Squareback that the PO helpfully changed over to 12V. Since I'm a stock vintage kinda guy, I am now changing it back to 6V like it should be. Maybe I could take some of those 63 6V components off your hands? I need a starter. And a bunch of 6V light bulbs. And a turn signal relay. I've already located a generator and the correct 6V fan housing and pulley. |
Would you like an 8 track with that to.
Anyone would be nuts to want 6v. The whole purest thing is going to far. You guys honestly are nuts. |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22728
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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| vdub wrote: |
| GjMan wrote: |
| Hey, just bought a 66 Squareback that the PO helpfully changed over to 12V. Since I'm a stock vintage kinda guy, I am now changing it back to 6V like it should be. Maybe I could take some of those 63 6V components off your hands? I need a starter. And a bunch of 6V light bulbs. And a turn signal relay. I've already located a generator and the correct 6V fan housing and pulley. |
Would you like an 8 track with that to.
Anyone would be nuts to want 6v. The whole purest thing is going to far. You guys honestly are nuts. |
Most 8 tracks are 12 volt. However, I do have a 6 volt player that plays 45RPM records in the car.
Nuts, huh? 
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Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
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