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sealant for engine
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dugm
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 1:39 pm    Post subject: sealant for engine Reply with quote

I'm in the process of my first rebuild. Can anyone tell me the best sealer to use on the case, the 4 nuts inside the case 2 outside, and the head nuts? Also, should I put any sealer where the piston sleeve meets the case where the black o-ring goes? By the way this is an 86 2.1 waterboxer out of a vanagon. Thanks. Question
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you can find a source, a porsche parts house etc, get Loctite 574 for the case halves. I used it on my 2.2T engine with good results. I even used it on some racing two strokes with good results.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 11:49 pm    Post subject: Re: sealant for engine Reply with quote

<<I'm in the process of my first rebuild. Can anyone tell me the best sealer to use on the case,>>

All new late model aluminum GM engines use no gaskets at all.

When I had to redo my head seals of my 89 2.1 ( rebuilder failed to do a decent job ) I used GM engine seal.
Part # 1234 6141

The stuff works great for supplimentng all the gaskets on the engine, and most certainly would do one heck of job in assembling the cases.

This sealer suggestion came to me via a friend of mine who is a master GM mechanic, and uses zero gaskets on most everything he rebuilds--just the GM engine seal.
And I have no leaks at all on my 2.1 now.

Good Luck,
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Gasgasinch" is what I always use when assembling T-1's on everything except for the valves cover gaskets (hylomar get used there) when I do one of those. I Have never did a T-4 block though but I think it would not matter. Its more important that you get a thin even mil put down so the havles seal.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go to the dealer and get a jar of Kuril- K2 and do it with the right stuff. Leave the GMS for GM's. Wink
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

<<Go to the dealer and get a jar of Kuril- K2 and do it with the right stuff. Leave the GMS for GM's.>>

I have pretty much paid real good attention to the VW purists within the "virgin" years of Vanagon ownership.

Then I found better product's that last longer, and work much better.
The Gm engine seal is one of those examples.

The VW distributed engine assembly adhesive is Play Dough in comparison.

I would never even think twice about using any Permatex high temp, copper, or whatever silicone--it's all pretty much junk.


Jump the VW fence and try a better product to assemble ANY engine.

I did , and can actually say from experience it is a better product.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would never even think twice about using any Permatex high temp, copper, or whatever silicone--it's all pretty much junk.


Jump the VW fence and try a better product to assemble ANY engine.

I did , and can actually say from experience it is a better product.[/quote]
Quote:



Well Terry,
While you generally have the right attitude, in my opinion, I cannot but wonder about your reference to Permatex products as "all pretty much junk". There I cannot pass without comment. Can you, for example, suggest a better sealant for exhaust flange gaskets than Permatex High Temp Copper 101BR. I cannot.
As to your suggestion that other products may be superior to German sealants in the case of aluminum engine joints, well, there again I wonder. Surely we all have our favorites; mine is LOCTITE 518 which is anerobic in that it sets up in the absence of air, thus allowing all the time ever needed to adjust parts and bolt them up. It too is marketed to elimimate paper gaskets (though I con't do that). It is ideal for engine case flange joints, as it fills gaps up to .01" and will not shrink or harden. It is good up to about 300 degrees F. and that certainly cuts it for all but exhaust flanges. This particular sealant is especially recommended on aluminum applications.
Can you state which company manufactures your GM product? We may be talking about the same sealant.
Further to the subject, I have had excellent result with the German sealants also. Never have I had a leak which I can attribute to a failure of the German products. In fact, it has been my experience that these engines will wear out before the case sealant has failed.

Regards,
James
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JWPATE wrote:
I would never even think twice about using any Permatex high temp, copper, or whatever silicone--it's all pretty much junk.


Jump the VW fence and try a better product to assemble ANY engine.

I did , and can actually say from experience it is a better product.
[quote]


Well Terry,
<< I cannot but wonder about your reference to Permatex products as "all pretty much junk".>>

James,

If youv'e ever dealt withsmall bock Chevy stock valve ccove gaskest your aware that they are almost impossible to permanently seal.
Bule, Copper, whatever permantex on cork, rubber, silicone gaskets fails time after time using Permatex silicone based sealer.
High temp, low temp, or in between temp.

I've built hundreds of these engines and if your not using aluminum valve cover's your doomed to a leak.
Same with oil pans & rear seals.

An expasperating situation after the engine is bolted up and running--and you think your all done.

Anyway GM distributes this engine sealer--I have no idea who makes the stuff for them--and they won't tell either.

I elaborated on my engine building & sealing skill's, on my VW's, as well as other's.

No leaks, drum tight joints, and I'm happy, yhe cusomer's are happy, and I'm not re-doing the job.
And that's worth it's sweight in gold .
To me anyway.

I use no sealer on the exhaust flange gaskets.simply because they are crush gasket's and I dress the flanges to fit anyway.
So sealer here isn't an issue for me.

Like I mentioned n a prior post--GM uses no gaskets at all, on any of their aluminum engines, and they don't leak.

That's a pretty good track record for me anyway.

Take Care,
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Silkworm
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"If youv'e ever dealt withsmall bock Chevy stock valve ccove gaskest your aware that they are almost impossible to permanently seal" - Terry Kay

ive never had a problem with sealing the valve covers or oil pan on my small block 350 in my camaro, using just the gaskets themselves, no gasket materal, maybee you should look into the way your tourqing the valve covers an pan down, i dont use aluminum valve covers either an they dont leak. Not tryin to rip your post, just my own experiance
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys are gonna make my brain pop. I went to Vanagon school, and they said to use Kuril K2. Being a good German, I follow orders. I've NEVER been let down by following the VW engineers' orders. Verstehen Sie?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuril K2 is almost identical to the GM sealant..... I have used both, and if you were to squirt both out on the work bench, you would be hard pressed to tell the difference... I am willing to bet that GM just re packages the Kuril stuff.... I would suggest using the VW stuff for the head bolts, they are important....
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

<<Kuril K2 is almost identical to the GM sealant>>

Almost only counts in Horshoe's and Hand grenade's---

<<I am willing to bet that GM just re packages the Kuril stuff>>

There ya go--this must be the answer.
GM is outsourcing it's engine sealant mfg.to Deutschland--can't handle the production costs here.
It's a NAFTA thing.-- ~Smile
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the expanded information TK. Yup, next time I go by a GM dealer ..will stop and get some of that sealant to try out. That is how I used to get the DEXCOOL when it first came out.

James
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for the wisdom. i didn't mean to start a fight but besides being educational it was entertaining. I went with the gm sealant on the case because i have no vw dealer nearby. My only doubt is that i used the yellow goo that came with my gasket kit for the head nuts. That is what go westy told me they use.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

<<thanks for the wisdom. i didn't mean to start a fight but besides being educational it was entertaining.>>

The replies were absolutley entertainig---no doubt.

< My only doubt is that i used the yellow goo that came with my gasket kit for the head nuts. That is what go westy told me they use.>>

They use it cause they don't know any different, and some folks are kinda set in their ways---
If the Bentley or VW says to use it it must be the only way.
No grey--just black or white.

You'll find that the GM engine assembly sealant works well in all sealing situations-on any engine, not just GM or VW's.

The bonus plan here is the stuff is also easy to remove if needed.
It rolls off the surface kinda like rubber, not like silicone at all, but still stays elastic.
Crazy substance, and it works real good.


Take Care,
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And now I have a tube of it , right here on the desk top. It is the GM vehicle care Assembly Adhesive number 1#12346141. The tube (about 1.9 ounces) tells little about it's makeup, other than that it contains siloxanes and silicones. Seems to be the same old song. The instructions for use, advise the final setup of parts must be done within five minutes and that the product will dry to the touch in about ten minutes. Again, seems like the product seems to be just another silicone sealant. Use it if you wish.
The price is consistant with other such goo. Is it better than the German silicone tubes that come within every overhaul gasket kit? Not likely. Seems to be the same approach to sealant.
If you want to start a really oil-leak dry, overhaul on one of these aluminum engines, I again recomment that you seal all flanges with LOCTITE 518. It will cost you about double the price of either the German C2 or the Gm adhesive, but in either case the difference is small change, since a two ounce tube is all you will need. In the case of Loctite 518, it is specially suited for aluminum parts, will allow all the time you need since it is anaerobic and sets up only in the presence of metal with an absence of O2. Forget the others, I have years now of observing how good 518 performs under high temp. conditions. Never a leak. Not a drop. You are talking about perhaps $12 for an 1.5 oz. tube of the GM goop or, say $18 for Loctite 518. You pay your money and you take your chances. In this case the choice is easy. If you are thinking about the GM silicone procuct, I strongly suggest that you stick with the German sealants which are part of every gasker kit.
Best regards,
James
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

<<If you are thinking about the GM silicone procuct,>>

Funny thing James, .
You mention you have a tube of the product right samck dab in front of you and your saying it's silicone.

Better try opening that tube prior to rambling on what's in it.

It sure is everythig BUT silicone.

It sure isn't Permatex blue or gold goo.

Better try the stuff first, then be casting the dispersions, cause you really don't have a clue yet what youv'e got there.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Better try the stuff first, then be casting the dispersions, cause you really don't have a clue yet what youv'e got there.


The expression is "casting aspersions". Not DIS. ASS.

I think I just commented on another thread about sealants that it was destined to become a pissing match in short order. I must have gotten lost. Is this the same thread?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tencentlife wrote:
I must have gotten lost. Is this the same thread?


Oh, good one. There goes that whole space/time continuum thing.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tencentlife wrote:
I think I just commented on another thread about sealants that it was destined to become a pissing match in short order. I must have gotten lost. Is this the same thread?

Sorry... that's sorta my fault. I referenced a link to this old "pissing match" after searching to get more information on the sealant Terry was recommending. Sorry for the confusion! Embarassed
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