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eurodub
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

my friend Mircea had all sorts of fiberglass pigments, but you can't go wrong with the white bakelite powder.
i have at home a powerful cyanide acrylic (sp) adhesive that uses a spray can solvent for drying up fast, i used it to fill some hole in a dash pod. mix the transparent paste with the powder, fill the hole, spray it and it's bone dry 3 seconds later. the only problem seems to be the color of the powder, i couldn't get an exact match for the brown.
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splitjunkie
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would go with currently available brass threaded inserts.

http://www.tristar-inserts.com/threaded-inserts.htm

The problem with using a nut is that your screw will have to be long enough to reach the nut that is at the bottom of the hole. It the original ones aren't long enough then you would have to replace them with non original ones. The inserts will look a lot more factory and will give superior holding power and probably less likely to break the repair off.
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johnshenry Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that is the best way to do it. I was just "on a roll" in the shop that night and wanted to try this out. I thought I had some original broken pods that I could heat an original insert out of, but I didn't. The nut in this one is set up properly to use the original length screw.

I think I will make a better mold using some aluminum flashing and a top that can hold the insert at just the right height. These things get twisted off often as the screws seize in there and people just crank on them. On this pod, the other screw was in place but very seized. I spent a good half hour with PB blaster, heat and vice grips to slowly "rock" it out of the bore...
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Capriacci
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for sharing, Professor. Waiting for the next class Smile
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnshenry wrote:
eurodub wrote:
with some genuine nut sourced from broken pods, and maybe some white powder to give a white finish to the plast-t-pair, that pod should be good to go for another 60 years Smile


That is actually and interesting thought. I friend who restores old guitars and amps once told me about making a powder out of the material by sanding/grinding old broken parts and using it with a solvent. I could probably make some ivory bakelite powder (no shortage of broken ivory pods!) and mix it with the Plas-T-pair to color it....

I do it the same way Wink
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, lots going on in the shop lately, but little time to post pics and add to this thread. But I thought I would post this work as it is quite the challenge... for a worthwhile cause.

Max is restoring a pretty original '50 split:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=496641&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

I restored semaphores for him and sold him a wiring harness kit and by the pics on the thread, he has made some excellent progress on the car in the last 2 years. He had e-mailed me about pods and questioned whether his pod was restoreable or not. His ivory bakelite pod was badly cracked and had both "ears" broken off..... but after revealing the date code on the pod's ground fork, it was pretty clear that it was the original pod to the car. As I have been doing some ivory pod restos lately, I started work on his, accepting the challenge of trying to make it usable in the car. I personally believe that if a part is original to the car, all efforts should be made to try and use it.

The good thing about the often cracked up ivory pods is that finding "donor" pod parts for them isn't too hard, I have a huge bag of donor ivory pod pieces.

Here is what the pod looked like when I started. Common to find one, or both mounting "ears" broken off:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Additionally, one of the speedo mount bosses was broken off, also very common:

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Here you see the extent of the broken off ears. Both are gone completely, but the voids are not seen on the face of the pod once it is mounted in the dash, so trying to come up with something to make it useable was worthwhile:

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Here are the two "donor" pieces that I would use to try and cut/graft into the pod:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Last edited by johnshenry on Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cutting ivory bakelite is very difficult. It doesn't act like a plastic at all, it has a very high heat tolerance and does not melt easily. Abrasive discs do not work well on it. I found the best tool in my box of Dremel attachments to be a mini diamond coated saw. The stuff cuts more like stone than plastic. I tried to create some complex bonding lines, rather than a single, uniform, linear join.

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A lot of grinding/cutting and test fitting later, I got a pretty good result:

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The right side:

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Here are the sections cemented in with the 2 part "Plast-T-Pair". When it becomes close to setting hard (maybe 20-25 minutes) it can be molded like clay and shaped. You can see on this one piece that the donor piece was not quite big enough and left a couple voids to fill. Binder clips are used to hold the donor piece in alignment while the adhesive sets up:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Zwitterkafer
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice work!

Prediction: ......the price of donor pod bits will now skyrocket.
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eurodub
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The pod in my split was broken while shipped. Broken= more than 10 pieces. A solid adhesive and a lot of patience later and is now working super in my split. Won't last a lifetime, but should be good for many years if it doesn't get hit by something in the trunk.
I find it so much harder to repair the switch contacts than just cut and replace some broken areas, but every pod deserves a new life so in the end it pays off.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A word of caution here. Bakelite contains Asbestos in many cases. Extreme care should be used when cutting or grinding anything containing asbestos. It's best to assume that it does contain asbestos and take the proper precautions rather than take a chance.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the heads up Chris. At one point the saw was making things pretty "dusty" and I wondered about hazards and put on a dust mask.

Again, I don't anticipate doing this often, it is kind of PIA but for the provenance of this car and the love of mildly cracked ivory bakelite, I enjoy the challenge.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am so glad that you love mildly cracked ivory bakelite! When I first looked at these pictures, I was thinking "wow, that pod is in rough shape!".....then, I realized it was mine! Your work so far looks amazing. Thanks for taking the time to do it right.

I had a few days off this past week to start mounting latches & trim....plus, I just received a pile of restored Kamax bolts for the fenders, so I'll be mounting those soon. And, the interior from West Coast Classic goes in this week as well. I'll post pics as soon as I get a chance.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad you saw this thread Max, I was going to send you a PM. I made an aluminum mold to re-create the missing speedo mount boss tonight, and ordered some brass threaded inserts for it also. I think it will be so cool to have this pod back in that split after it is restored and I am proud to be able to contribute. I have a soft spot in my heart for Bordeaux Red splits too.....!
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is the early '49 ivory pod restored. I really think that this is the Holy Grail of pods. Again, they only started making ivory pods in '49, and sometime in mid-late '49 they swapped the indicator lights with the oil on the right and the high bean on the left. So this one, with the high beam on the right is very rare, was probably only made for a few months. And especially rare in this condition. The speedometer in it is dated Sept '49.

On this one I had to make a ground fork (left side, looking at the back) from scratch out of brass sheet. Re-riveting it back on it tricky, I drilled out the old brass rivet and soldered a short piece of 4mm brass tubing in the hole, creating a new rivet (I think somewhere back in this thread there are pics of that technique). And BTW, the ground forks on the '46 and '48 pods that I have restored are steel, with no date code stamped on them. The small broken off piece of this one that was on it when I got it was brass.

I actually had come in the house from the shop and surf pictures of old pods when I started putting the wires on this one. Because I found that the crimp connection on the back of the ignition housing was not wide like the later ones so that it could contain 2 wires. Looking at pics of old pods, I found that the sem indicator light (upper left, when looking at the back of the pod) is connected to a "hot" terminal on the headlight switch. And I know from experience driving the very old split that the sems (and the dash indicator light) would work without the key switched on. Not so on the later pod cars with the indicators swapped.

I still have to find the perfect A profile key and lock for this one......

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi John Henry,

What a GREAT job restoring the Ivory Bakelite dash pod !!!!

Truly a labor of love bringing back the life into this dash pod !!

SUPER !!!

I found when I repaired a couple of these dash pods some years ago, there were minor
electrical issues that surfaced.

Seems that when you have the different metals such as the brass lug, the steel bulb holder
& contact strip and whatever the rivet metal is made out of, there could be a metal reaction
such as oxidation between the different metal causing a slight resistance that may effect
the 6 volts causing an additional voltage drop, in this case the ground return.

I found cleaning a small area around where the different metals connected and then making
a small solder bridge across the different metals resolved that type electrical problem.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well here is some more work on Max's pod. One of the speedo bolt mounts had to be re-built. You can see in a previous post in this thread where I did this using the Plast-T-Pair product. I figured that I would try this again, but with 2 new ideas. 1) make a re-usable form out of aluminum flashing and 2) try the "ivory bakelite dust" method of tinting the Plast-T-Pair product....

Seemed like a good idea...

I ran an 80 grit disk agains a piece of "donor" ivory pod and created some pretty good "dust". I used a thin strip of aluminum flashing to create a form that replicated the shape of the mount. Used some JB Weld to secure the ends. And I had found some aluminum M5 inserts at McMaster that I could set in the plastic mix. I used an M5 machine screw and nut to set the depth, and made a "cover" for the form to hold the screw/insert while the plastic set up.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The first "pour" was probably 40% bakelite dust and resin. A day later after the solvent had evaporated, the solids had receded a lot. So I had to do a second pour. I tinted the mix with bakelite dust again, leaving the M5 screw in the insert so the mix wouldn't fill the hole.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The second pour leveled the mount off nicely, but then the real problem became apparent. I had applied a thin layer of grease on the inside of the aluminum form hoping that it would allow me ot just slip it up off the plastic after it had set.... but it was not to be. As you can see below, after much careful prying, and trying to get the form to release, eventually the whole molded form popped off of the pod plate.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I stared at this think for a long time trying to figure out what to do next. I eventually realized that a "re-useable" form would probably never work, and just JB Welded the molded piece back to the pod. 24 hrs clamped later, I inserted an M5 screw and tugged on it real hard, and concluded that this would be strong enough to hold 1/2 of a speedo in place. I filed it down to the proper height.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I didn't get a "before" pic, but one of the knob bosses was broken off on one side. So I created another "mold" out of some paperboard, greased up a knob shaft, and poured some more Plast-T-Pair around it. Lesson learned here: use masking tape/waxed backside for molds like before. The blue paperboard soaked up the solvent and was impossible to release from the set plastic. I glass beaded it 2-3 times, used razor blades and dental picks to try and scrape it all off... and as you can see, still didn't get it completely off. In the last pic though, you can see the tapped knob shaft is installed, and the boss was filed and shaped just right.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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usariemen
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good work as always.
And we see with some input of time, brain, skills and todays materials
much can be saved wich in the past would had been not repairable.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

usariemen wrote:
Good work as always.
And we see with some input of time, brain, skills and todays materials
much can be saved wich in the past would had been not repairable.


Indeed. A lot of approaches, a lot of lessons learned.

Having done all kinds of this type of work, a few easier suggestions for better results:

- Tint your resin mix with a small amount of yellow and white enamel to bring the color closer to the original bakelite. While using bakelite dust seems cool, it adds no value really, plus its really not wise to harvest this dust unless you are wearing a real respirator under a air filtration hood, a dusk mask does nothing and this cancer causing stuff floats in the air for hours after you take your mask off.

- Instead of suspending the insert from above, obstructing the pour and requiring a stiff mold outer wall, use a small ball of modeling clay to the end of the insert, just slightly into the lower threads so resin will not flow in, then position it (X-Y-Z) where it needs to be, that way you don't need a screw insert, makes it much easier to add in the resin. The small bit of clay either stays captive or easily taken out with a tap.

- Use a heavier duty masking tape, or even a woven duct tape to build a sacrificial outer mold wall instead of metal flashing, fast, simple, low cost. You can either peel it off thereafter, or brush apply some light silicone where its exposed above the lower crown bakelite (optional a painters type mask tape usually will release without any residue behind).

- Use a correct style brass thermoset insert instead of that steel one, they are available thru mcmaster, nearly identical to the original face inserts.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great work, as always, John. I wish everyone put this kind of effort and attention to detail into their work. It's really impressive.
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