Brazilian Piston/Cylinders

[LordHuron95]

Hello all, in the process of my Rebuild for my 1980 Vanagon and need to replace the Ps&Cs. I have tried searching the answer to my question with little to no luck.

In my search for a replacement set, I have ultimately found Chinese options for the cheapest, then brazilian followed by german. To my understanding, Brazil was manufacturing buses until the early 2000s, so I can see that the parts could be a reasonable option but wanted to see what the community consensus was. I'm steering clear of the chinese made ones and I'm sure the german ones are the best, but I'm also not rebuilding a porsche so not sure that's necessary. If this is a "bite the bullet and do it right once" so be it. Of course I'd like to save money when possible, but what must be done (and bought ) will be done.
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Never swing a mean loop. Never do dirt to man nor animal.


-1980 Vanagon Westy

[Wildthings]

I don't think Brazilian buses ever used Type 4 engines, so have no idea on quality and history of any Type 4 parts they might make/sell.

[bsairhead]

"German the best" "Chinese the worst" Who knows. Made in Brueck. Made in America, The name of a town in China. Without a hardness tester and better machinist tools than i have who knows.

[SGKent]

I think that the Mahle PC sets were Brazilian. Where in California are you?
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[aeromech]

Clatter might be able to offer an informed opinion
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[favguy]

Not sure about availability, but with regard to Brazilian components, there are two sorts to consider.

1, Genuine VW Brazilian, made by or directly for VW by an OEM supplier.

2, Aftermarket Brazilian.

If you can be certain you're buying parts that fall into category 1, they'll be good quality, generally not as good as German VW made, but they'll get the job done well. Category 2 is a crap shoot, as they say. Might just about be good enough, or could be absolutely unuseable rubbish, as with Chinese manufactured stuff.

Talking about engine parts, I'd only consider German or OEM VW Brazilian.

[favguy]

[raygreenwood]

For Brazilian.....in my personal experience, it depends on when they were made.

Yes Brazil made type 4 cylinder sets

On the 1980s and into the 90s, you could buy very nice Brazilian made piston/cylinder sets. These were made by Cima, Mahle, Cofap....and I am trying to remember the history of whether and when Cima and Mahle might have been seperate companies and then merged to Cima/Mahle?

Anyway, the type 4 Cofap branded piston/cylinder sets from the 90s had Kolbenschmidt pistons and wrist pins and Cima or Mahle cylinders and were very high quality. I have two sets of 1.7L cylinders like this. Cofap was related to TRW of Brazil.

As we moved into the early 2000s it became all Cima/Mahle and quality dropped off a little....a little wider tolerances, more flashing etc.....but still very good.

Over the past 15 years or so I have HEARD poor opinions of the Brazilian quality from Mahle.

Likewise, originally the Chinese AA pistons and cylinders started out about 15 years ago with lots of problems and now all I hear is good things about everything but the ring sets. They worked hard at fixing the problems.

If you can find a mid to late 90s Cofap set that has been stored well.....it's a good deal.

Ray

Ray

[Manfred58sc]

My last set of Brazilian Mahles were just fine. That was about 10 years ago, , ordered many sets before that, also w/o issue. Current quality?? Hope its not repackaged Chinese.
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Fat chick owner/operator

[LordHuron95]

In my search, looks like I've come down to a brazilian set from aircooled.net for $500
https://vwparts.aircooled.net/Piston-Cylinder-Set-94mm-x-71mm-Cast-w-13cc-p/029-198-075br.htm

Or a mahle set from jbugs. On sale for $600
https://www.jbugs.com/product/029198075B.html

Being on sale, I almost say just bite the $100 for the peace of mind.
_________________
Never swing a mean loop. Never do dirt to man nor animal.


-1980 Vanagon Westy

[tcoop1100]

Just so you know- aircooled.net is no longer doing business ...

https://vwparts.aircooled.net
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Aloha,
Tim
January '57 Sedan with April '64 40hp big bore

[Clatter]

Those Mahles JBugs is selling ain’t likely German.

Sure do miss aircooled.net..

My understanding is that what they sell as Mahle are repackaged AA.
I’d heard that you can see a flat spot on the cylinder where the AA logo usually goes.

Supposedly the pistons are different, though?

Have a set of Mahles here in a box from 10 years ago i could take pics of.
But, dang, all the AAs i had are in motors now.

Anyone got a set of AAs they want to take some pics of?
My curiosity is up now..!
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[LordHuron95]

[SGKent]

[LordHuron95]

[Wildthings]

[SGKent]

how many miles is on the engine case now? Is there any evidence a piston and valve seat interacted - dings, nicks, etc..

As for heads, ouch. The good ones are up now like $3800 a set from the type 4 store. I don't think Len is selling them directly now but you could call him and ask him. If so you can get a good set that are upgraded but don't have as much porting etc., for less.

Hoffman Machine (HAM) in GA https://newsite.hamheads.com/home-2/
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[LordHuron95]

Well, my case is already split. I had to get one head off and figured I might as well go all the way, which was good. Metal flakes and a messed up bearing wouldve only gotten worse.

As for the existing Ps&Cs. I forget the numbering, but if I remember right, rear passenger cylinder had a vertical groove you could run your nail on. Front driver piston looked like you took your nail and dug a couple chunks out the side. All four cylinders have no cross hatching. In fact they're completely smooth. Theres evedice someone has pulled the engine before, but not torn it down all the way.

I'd need to go look but I think it's at like 170K
_________________
Never swing a mean loop. Never do dirt to man nor animal.


-1980 Vanagon Westy

[Wildthings]

If it's never been fully rebuilt before then it will likely have severe cylinder wall wear as the oils available back then didn't give much more protection than peanut oil would have. In contrast, an engine built after 1990 might have almost no wear to the P&Cs.

The 1800 that I rebuilt circa 1990 that was in my Bay for 250K+/- miles had zero taper and there was still visible crosshatching where the top ring reached in the top of the cylinder. In contrast, an old 1800 from a Type 4 car I had lying around that had never been apart had 0.015" of cylinder wall taper.

[LordHuron95]

Yeah my very knowledgeable CHEVY friend, said he thought they looked pretty worn. Taken with a grain of salt as he admits, he doesn't know VWs or aircooled engines the same, but at that point of "maybe they could be machined, but if you're this far in a tear down, why not replace them instead?" especially with the mechanical damage on the one piston and cylinder.
_________________
Never swing a mean loop. Never do dirt to man nor animal.


-1980 Vanagon Westy