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Cptn. Calzone
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:54 am    Post subject: tempn sender Reply with quote

Clean that otor and put some sled tins on and it will run cooler ill wager
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rays-64
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hotrodvw wrote:
I made this up, works like a champ.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Does anyone know where I can get one of these fittings
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:33 pm    Post subject: fittings Reply with quote

From hotrod vw he sells hose and fittings good fast service and reasonable pricing
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rays-64 wrote:
Hotrodvw wrote:
I made this up, works like a champ.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Does anyone know where I can get one of these fittings

Just installed the above temp. sender right after external oil cooler outlet. This location vs the relief plug location showed the below temps at idol and no load.
Inline sender. / Relief plug sender
142*. / 150*
153*. / 160*
164*. / 170*
173*. / 180*
178*. / 186*. External fan on oil cooler turns on
160*. / 187*
165*. / 186*
168*. / 189*
189*. / 195*. Engine rpm 3,500
182*. / 200*. Engine rpm back to idol
141*. / 195*. Engine off and 5 minutes later.

After 20 minutes of freeway and road driving temps are almost exactly 10* lower with sender in oil line vs relief plug sender. Oil temps respond to different driving rpm and driving loads. In the relief plug they barely fluctuate. It seems that with the sender in the relief plug location your reading more of a case temp.

With all that being said, if my oil temp does hit 220*, it's a good guess that my case is 230*. Is that to high for a standard case temp.?


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4ferraras
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glenn wrote:
redhot wrote:

1) Place the sender in the sump (bottom plate) Good enough? Or should the gallery be tapped and entered at the type3 stock oil filler location (like Glenn)


I've since moved my sender so no it's in the oil filter mount. That way I'm seeing the temp as it enters the engine.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Hello, in this scenario, would you put Teflon tape on the sensor to seal it of would that affect the temp readings?
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MURZI
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teflon tape can affect the grounding. I use liquid Teflon....just a few drops.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FV195 wrote:
ok, had a sender in my deep sump, no reading at all? think sump was not grounded real well


grounded? maybe, i think the problem with the sumps is no oil flow. think about it. does the oil swirl down there? does it pass through in some way? i don't know how close the temp sender and bottom of oil pickup tube were in your setup. let us know. i have often thought about using a deep sump but it seems to me you have shown us evidence that they are only good at taking our funds. they don't seem to add useful oil capacity or oil cooling capacity. my ramblings are not exactly on topic but your posting made me think a bit.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

costonjs wrote:
FV195 wrote:
ok, had a sender in my deep sump, no reading at all? think sump was not grounded real well


grounded? maybe, i think the problem with the sumps is no oil flow. think about it. does the oil swirl down there? does it pass through in some way? i don't know how close the temp sender and bottom of oil pickup tube were in your setup. let us know. i have often thought about using a deep sump but it seems to me you have shown us evidence that they are only good at taking our funds. they don't seem to add useful oil capacity or oil cooling capacity. my ramblings are not exactly on topic but your posting made me think a bit.


A deep sump is very useful for maintaining oil flow under high accelerations. When you corner hard the oil can slosh to one side of the motor and the pick up tube will suck air, and deep sump helps alleviate this problem.

A deep sump should also help lower oil temps, by two methods, first if increase the surface area exposed to outside air and the surface area the oil is exposed too. secondly the increased volume of oil means that a smaller percentage of oil is exposed to the hottest parts of the motor at any given time.


so consider the first reason to add a deep sump is to prevent oil starvation due to acceleration. a secondary benefit is cooling, although the amount of cooing may not be that great as opposed to adding a real cooler
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bluebus86 wrote:
A deep sump is very useful for maintaining oil flow under high accelerations. When you corner hard the oil can slosh to one side of the motor and the pick up tube will suck air, and deep sump helps alleviate this problem.


oil slosh is off topic (oil temp sender location) but i agree. sump can help with that.

bluebus86 wrote:
A deep sump should also help lower oil temps, by two methods, first if increase the surface area exposed to outside air and the surface area the oil is exposed too. secondly the increased volume of oil means that a smaller percentage of oil is exposed to the hottest parts of the motor at any given time.


i see how you used the word "should" right there. check the postings under topic "new oil temp readings problem". in that topic you will find that tizzfishin wasn't getting expected oil temp readings from the bottom of his sump. that makes 2 posters (FV195, tizzfishin) that aren't getting expected temp readings from the bottom of a sump. clear evidence that aftermarket sumps aren't doing squat with all that oil. i believe that sumps are an item that most of us should be leery of. they don't do much of what they "should" do. the oil doesn't flow, slosh or circulate in the bottom and side cavities of those sumps. waste of money for most of us. also, back on topic, don't mount a temp sending unit at the bottom of an aftermarket sump.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

costonjs wrote:
bluebus86 wrote:
A deep sump is very useful for maintaining oil flow under high accelerations. When you corner hard the oil can slosh to one side of the motor and the pick up tube will suck air, and deep sump helps alleviate this problem.


oil slosh is off topic (oil temp sender location) but i agree. sump can help with that.

bluebus86 wrote:
A deep sump should also help lower oil temps, by two methods, first if increase the surface area exposed to outside air and the surface area the oil is exposed too. secondly the increased volume of oil means that a smaller percentage of oil is exposed to the hottest parts of the motor at any given time.


i see how you used the word "should" right there. check the postings under topic "new oil temp readings problem". in that topic you will find that tizzfishin wasn't getting expected oil temp readings from the bottom of his sump. that makes 2 posters (FV195, tizzfishin) that aren't getting expected temp readings from the bottom of a sump. clear evidence that aftermarket sumps aren't doing squat with all that oil. i believe that sumps are an item that most of us should be leery of. they don't do much of what they "should" do. the oil doesn't flow, slosh or circulate in the bottom and side cavities of those sumps. waste of money for most of us. also, back on topic, don't mount a temp sending unit at the bottom of an aftermarket sump.


Golly I guess oil slosh in sumps is on topic now Shocked Shocked

Could you provide a link to the topic you referenced?? I entered the topic as you reported it..."new oil temp readings problem" in the search function and the searched using the title only function. The search did not find it.


PS to get back on topic to this 9 year old topic Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes "

original 'topic"......."Hi guys, where is the best place for oil temp sender and where have you got your remote cooler and electric fan mounted on split bus? "

I found the that the oil pressure idiot light switch location in the type I motor is a nice place to mount the oil temperature sender, make sure it is a short sender so as to not block oil flow at this location. I measured the engine block sump (not a deep sump) oil temperature via a Thermocouple down the dip stick hole and found it indicated nearly the same temperature as at the location of the idiot light switch.

Thus a convenient location for a temperature sender is at the idiot light switch. Since it is not under the car, you should not have to worry about hit being hit by road debris.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bluebus86 wrote:
Could you provide a link to the topic you referenced??


never tried putting a link in. hope it works:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=636148
it does! i checked in post a reply preview.

i found a 3rd poster with unexpected aftermarket sump temps a couple days ago buried in someone else's thread. they posted more detailed data with temp and time. very nice. i will attempt to find it again and post a link for you. can't promise i'll be able to find it or get you that link in a timely fashion.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have tried different locations, to see what was the fastest to respond to engine load, slowest, etc. two years ago, I had a sender mounted in the deep sump, oil cooler bypass, and the oil filter mount. With a three way switch I could read any and compare. Without looking up my notes, I recall the bypass location always read the highest, and was slowest to respond. The sump and oil filter mount read the same, or very close, but the filter mount responded very quickly. With the filter mount sender, it would start to respond maybe 15-30 seconds after the cylinder head temp needle would rise. I know that doesn't make sense, as it's pulling oil from the very location where the sump temp sender is, but it's what happened. At one point I swapped the sender locations (sump and filter housing) and results were the same. All I can imagine is that the thermal mass of the engine and sump work to slow the reaction time of the sender. I have seen it installed in the oil pressure switch location with a tee fitting, and my observation is that it is slow to react to engine load, and my IR Fluke gun indicated it was reading 10-15 degrees cool.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bluebus86 wrote:
Could you provide a link to the topic you referenced??

and read what is being posted in this thread too:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=436924

j8bug, 4th post in that topic, poster quotes berg's own literature about putting a sending unit on the sump. don't do it. why? no oil flow in the sump therefore no accurate temperature readings.

nextgen, 7th post in that topic, had mine in the sump and the needle did not move.

earthquake, next one, oil in the sump is not moving through the motor. (you know that's right)

Joel, next one, sump plate mounted sensors read way to low

miniman82, next one, Oil circulation, or lack thereof (boom! no slosh, no swirl, no flow)

i'm done with this. you're planning on installing a sump for oil capacity? don't waste your money. buy a dual filter mount. aircooled.net has one.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

costonjs wrote:
bluebus86 wrote:
Could you provide a link to the topic you referenced??


never tried putting a link in. hope it works:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=636148
it does! i checked in post a reply preview.

i found a 3rd poster with unexpected aftermarket sump temps a couple days ago buried in someone else's thread. they posted more detailed data with temp and time. very nice. i will attempt to find it again and post a link for you. can't promise i'll be able to find it or get you that link in a timely fashion.


well if I read it right the other post was about a defective gage that read 120F as soon as the key was turned, then it rose a little bit after driving. an IR gun was used to measure the drain plate on a deep sump and it was found to be very cold verse a other locations, which maybe because the deep sump has very little thermal contact with the rest of the engine case.

That would mean that the hot oil will tend to be cooled by the lower temp deep sump case.

the other post seems to be all over the place, using IR guns, and oil temp gages. so it is a real mix of data. I don't think it proves that the oil in the deep sump is not moved about.

the real test to see if the deep sump actually helps cool the oil would be to install a gage say at the idiot light port (pressure sensor port) which is just after the oil pump then run controlled test on a dyno with and without a deep sump.

short of that the post referenced is a confusing collection of data. I don't think it is conclusive if the sump helps keep oil cooler or not.

thanks for the link however.

now if we could get some dyno data with an oil temp gage (rather than an IR gun) testing with and without a deep sump, then we would have some meaningful data. I say don't read too much into the data from that post.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the oil is indeed not moving about the deep sump, perhaps a baffle could be added around the pickup tube that would direct oil coming in from the crank case to be away form the pickup tube inlet, that would then force oil to flow about the deep sump more so.

anyone try that yet???
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bluebus86 wrote:
If the oil is indeed not moving about the deep sump, perhaps a baffle could be added around the pickup tube that would direct oil coming in from the crank case to be away form the pickup tube inlet, that would then force oil to flow about the deep sump more so. anyone try that yet???


bluebus86, this is good stuff but it's buried here. 5th page. all the newbies wanting to spend money. some will waste it on a sump. you should open this up as a fresh standalone topic.
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