Rocker Geometry

hoghead · Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:31 pm Post subject:

Are the lash caps VW specific or is there a Toyota part that will fit the 8mm valves?

How to guesstimate the thickness of lash caps required? At 56.00 an experiment (which doubles by the time I import them) it can quickly add up plus 2 weeks delay each time.
I could always buy the .080's and grind to suit, but would like to try and nail it first time.

BTW, I have searched and see references to geometry problems with Scat 1.25 rockers, but no answer as to what exactly is the issue
Any comments?

RockCrusher · Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:31 pm Post subject:

Your points are all valid Mark. My writing HERE in this thread is about the VW rockers available and what the average guy can do to get the best use and power from the system. You said in other words the same things I all ready said regarding basic height positioning of the entire shaft assembly. We have to get the most power we can here but not at the expense of worn guides in 1000 miles. Lower mounting or longer stem/lash caps are still the best answers on 1.4's and similar 1.25's. Correct foot radius is critical but NEVER right on these rockers.
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[email protected] Please use email for all general inquiries.

I will be happy to speak to anyone who has a serious inquiry (meaning real potential business for RC enterprises) or a parts order. Due to machining noise causing missed calls all calls will be returned promptly.

RockCrusher · Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:09 pm Post subject:

I might add that it's easy to pontificate on how people don't understand diddly squat and don't know their asses from a hole in the ozone and then NOT add any solid tech. Tell us exactly what YOU do and why it is so great. Don't tell us all how no one has the right answers but then not give the info. I DO understand all the variables and trade offs in geometry setting but hell, maybe I have something to learn too so don't hold back. If you're not selling the answers then you might as well give them away. Put up or shut up and let those willing to share do the sharing.
_________________
[email protected] Please use email for all general inquiries.

I will be happy to speak to anyone who has a serious inquiry (meaning real potential business for RC enterprises) or a parts order. Due to machining noise causing missed calls all calls will be returned promptly.

mark tucker · Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:14 pm Post subject:

RC thats not a good thing to say. and where is this exsexssive guide wear coming from???most of the guide wear I have seen is self inflected by the machineshop that dosent have aclue as to what they are doing to the parts. making something work better dosent kill the guides.
and for hogsbreath there isant any piticular problem, it kinda depends on your entire system as to what needs to be done, there isant realy any way to know what needs to be done unless you put it togeather and check it out. is this a race car that you are trying to get every bit of power out of? if not dont bother with the $56.00 lashcaps and go for the cheeper ones that sell for $9.00-15.00., I have good ones and cheep ones on my stuff and havent had any problem with either execpt the CB performance ones dont fit, there to tight, probably made for a 5/16 valve. I dont know of any jap cars that use them oem. possiably a mazda rotery??? thats a joke. good luck.

RockCrusher · Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:25 pm Post subject:

Your right Mark...it isn't a good thing to say but I am trying to give some general guideline info for these guys to follow that covers both types of rockers and how to zero in on the best compromise. Then you come along and make it sound like I don't know what I'm talking about. I've been around this block hundreds of times with all kinds of engines. Everything I said about the two systems is dead on accurate. In truth, if you have something constructive to add to it then I would be more than genuinely and sincerely happy to hear it. Smile

_________________
[email protected] Please use email for all general inquiries.

I will be happy to speak to anyone who has a serious inquiry (meaning real potential business for RC enterprises) or a parts order. Due to machining noise causing missed calls all calls will be returned promptly.

mark tucker · Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:40 pm Post subject:

oops I for got to type the" never".some times the brain is faster than the fingers.some times it's not. I dont know what block you have been driving around but you might have the same gps my wife has. I dont quite understand best compromise,what are you trying to compromise? if you only have 1 set of parts and no way to get everything and you need to get your ride going but you need to make a rocker block space from a coat hanger ,well I reckon that might compromize something. if you stack a pile of shims because you dont have the correct pushrods that might compromize something. but if you put the stuff on with no shims and the corect pushrod it should work with out any problems.if the pushrods dont hit the tubes,if they do you can add up to probably .060 shim with out any problems. you could probably add a lot more with out any addverse wear problems,but that dosent make it right. then we get back to the cat fish again. go to bed rc it's getting late

RockCrusher · Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:51 pm Post subject:

basically you're saying put it on and it will work within reason.....before you were talking about maximizing power output, so which is it? Yes you generally can put them on, shim them a bit or whatever and the valves will open and close for sure.....

But let's not forget that this thread is SPECIFICALLY about rocker geometry, which to me means correct geometry.....not just slapping it together and you'll be ok.
_________________
[email protected] Please use email for all general inquiries.

I will be happy to speak to anyone who has a serious inquiry (meaning real potential business for RC enterprises) or a parts order. Due to machining noise causing missed calls all calls will be returned promptly.

mark tucker · Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:40 am Post subject:

just refering to your general guide lines,so witch is it? now you got this gut wondering about the whole world and the way it rotates around. no need for that.it depends on somany deferent things.there are somany deferent vairables.you seem to have a guide issue,it may not be the geomatree by what you are saying.if you are killing guides in a thousand miles,take your motor to somebody elsa and another machine shop that knows what thier doing and DOES IT CORECTLY. and or get better valves.now simmer down before you blow a hose off. and this guy already has his parts. if he had done a little more research he would of got cut to length pushrods,lash caps,the rockers he wanted,an ajustable pushrod, some rocker arm shims,some rocker block shims, oil,spray cleaner rags,molly lube for the foot type and assorted tools to do the job. and big pushrod tubes. or just order the rockers like most do and attempt to put them on.either way is ok but you may need to get more parts& that takes time &extra $$$ it is an easy job to do.dont worry about the 1/2 lift with the pushrod inline with the ajuster or the ajuster in line with the valve.the lator the better in most cases.3/4 lift is a good point to shoot for but it probably cant be obtained with out some costom work& machining. I have never seen any that needed any more than .030 under theblocks and that was due to swivel interferance/pushrod length. and the one running stock pushrods but needed shorter ones.it had a pile of shimsI dont know how the rockers were located, but the giudes were fine.but probably would of killed them in a few years. so dont get your panties in a wadd for nothing.cheezze!!

RockCrusher · Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:05 pm Post subject:

We do our heads in house and we don't have guide issues on our engines. I always iron and starch my panties so they never get bunched up.. Laughing

_________________
[email protected] Please use email for all general inquiries.

I will be happy to speak to anyone who has a serious inquiry (meaning real potential business for RC enterprises) or a parts order. Due to machining noise causing missed calls all calls will be returned promptly.

vw donvieira · Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:19 am Post subject:

Can thi sticky be "cleaned up" and just have one good article with pictures and go through the entire process of rocker arm geometry with both pushrod adj and valve tip adjusters?

I truly cannot find a great article that covers the entire scope of this subject.

Desertbusman · Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:38 am Post subject:

vw donvieira · Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:19 am Post subject:

-If I had the answer I would have.

- I cannot even find a nice write up on the web to cover this.

mark tucker · Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:42 am Post subject:

there was a nice tech article in hot vdubs&buggies about 2 1/2 years ago.but no pics just some info on types& raitos & theo's raitos. hmm I wonder who rote it??I know he got calls thanking for clearing up missconceptions&avoiding mistakes&selling the wrong products.nothing worse than a guy with a calculator & no knowledge to check what he is doing then wadds everything up. but the math was right???you sold me junk!!!now fix it!!for free!!aint going to happen. that dolar store calulator knows theo but not his brother reality.and if theo is to close to reality they tend to crash. so if you send me everything I will do some testing and some pic's and let you know the outcome.and everything means everything.in compleate sets.

Luis ''Diablo'' Gutierrez · Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:23 pm Post subject:

is there a vw aircooled book or manual that teach how to set, mesure, work with the different radio rockers?
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mexikanischen-deutsch
67'
68'
69' bugs

modok · Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:28 pm Post subject:

nope
hahahha
EVIL
must use own brain
hard
pernod fis
hahahaha

Luis ''Diablo'' Gutierrez · Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:36 pm Post subject:

i have done it before(close but no perfect) base on this forum, complicated and contradicting but i learned a lot haha, but will be nice jz to have it in a book and read it few times, hey modok i got a second identical dell 2 hr drive far yaaay
_________________
mexikanischen-deutsch
67'
68'
69' bugs

modok · Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:55 pm Post subject:

For reference, I will add this

How far is the rocker shaft intended to be from the valve?
There is no spec in the manual
I checked a bunch of old heads and discovered--

The factory center to center distance of the valves to the factory rockershaft is 32mm on the dot.

How do you check that? here's an idea:

If you bolt on the 18mm factory rockershaft bare and put a 44mm valve in the head backwards, should be a 1mm gap between the shaft and valve as the edge of the valve passes the shaft.

DarthWeber · Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:08 pm Post subject:

modok · Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:46 pm Post subject:

mark tucker · Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:44 am Post subject:

but but but, how does that work wont it just break off the end of the pushrod with it up in the rocker like that?? whay would thay machine the rocker like that? are they morons?? or just brain dammaged from falling offt the turnip truck andlanding on thier heads.
and it,s not just the valve end that matters . we are we having fun yet???a day from hell.


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