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corndog2 Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006 Posts: 10
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Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:00 am Post subject: Midengine Suspension |
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Hello,
I'm a newbie building a midengine rail. The frame type is similar to
the Hi-Jumper Sprites (no torsion bar at all), with a swing axel tranny.
I'd like to get some reccomendations regarding shocks for this
type of rail. I have read through lots of the posts on coil-over versus torsions options,
but havent seen anything specific to these types of
frames. Obvioulsy I have to go for a shock,
but I see a lot of variation in price. Cheapies up to super expensive.
Can you get away with a cheap coilover ? The Hi-jumper site seems to
push the Nitrogen Billet shocks for these rails, is that a better
way to go than a coilover ?
Comments welcome.
thanks |
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tuff_puff Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2006 Posts: 288 Location: Longview WA,
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Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:26 am Post subject: |
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mabee take a look at fox air shocks. they are nitro pressured. but they are rated at #900 a corner. i am shure thats more then enough for your mid-runner. the only down side is you need a nitro tank to adjust then. i have been priceing them out and i think it will be around $150 bucks for the tank,reg,hose,pressure,gauge |
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FreakingGomer Samba Member
Joined: January 11, 2005 Posts: 149 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 10:34 am Post subject: |
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with the air shocks, you run no torsions, only the air shicks, and no coils is that correct? I hear them mentioned from time to time but cannot seem to wrap my mind around them. |
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turboblue Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2003 Posts: 4216 Location: Central Indiana
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Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 10:47 am Post subject: |
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I've had Fox nitrogen shocks on my sand drag buggy for years, pricey but a great shock.
Marvin Shaw is another nitrogen shock for your application.
Less expensive are coil over Carreras. _________________ Gary
Turbo VW Sand Drag Buggy
"If you don't run into the Devil every once in awhile, you must be going in the same direction!" |
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El Vocho Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2006 Posts: 180
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Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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I have a sprite my self and run a bilstein with a coil over kit. I have had no problems with the set up.
Last edited by El Vocho on Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:47 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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tuff_puff Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2006 Posts: 288 Location: Longview WA,
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Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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right gomer. fox makes two kinds of air shocks smooth body (non coil over) and treaded body (coil over) here is a pic of my air shocks that are coil over air shocks. you probubly would not need coils on yours. i have the on mine because i am setting mine up to jump. but you rail will probubly be light enough for just the air shocks.
call chris at oregon motor sports and he will hook you up
503-251-2925
tell him shaun cook sent you
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runslikeapenguin Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2005 Posts: 4674 Location: Federal way WA
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Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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all the mid engine cars ive seen have those midengine buggy shocks i forgot what their called but their on the back of this car
it looks a little messed up because it is, my friend turned to look behind to see if his mom was following and went off of a 5 foot drop off and went end over end 3 times, and this was right after we had just replaced the nose cone to........
wait i take that back i just found em!
http://www.mooreparts.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?S...ode=SNITRO
_________________ never forget 1-31-07 |
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tuff_puff Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2006 Posts: 288 Location: Longview WA,
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Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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you can get a set of fox for about the same price and imho they are a way better shock. with way more travel potential. |
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El Vocho Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2006 Posts: 180
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Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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I thought his travel would be limited by the swing axle trans he's running not the shock? |
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runslikeapenguin Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2005 Posts: 4674 Location: Federal way WA
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Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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tuff_puff wrote: |
you can get a set of fox for about the same price and imho they are a way better shock. with way more travel potential. |
travel in a mid engine? kind of defeats the purpose, its not about travel. if you want travel then dont bother going mid _________________ never forget 1-31-07 |
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USMCord1 Razorback
Joined: July 22, 2005 Posts: 1538 Location: Az
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Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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tuff puff where did you get the adjustable link for your limit straps?
David _________________ For a Good time |
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bajaherbie Samba Sooner
Joined: November 27, 2003 Posts: 2985 Location: altus, oklahoma
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Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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soldier, those are the adjustable clevises that are available from moores or pacific customs, about $28 each plus $5 handling fee plus an outrageous shipping fee.....
i couldn't find anything like them at the john deere place... _________________ blank |
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USMCord1 Razorback
Joined: July 22, 2005 Posts: 1538 Location: Az
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Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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bajaherbie wrote: |
soldier, those are the adjustable clevises that are available from moores or pacific customs, about $28 each plus $5 handling fee plus an outrageous shipping fee.....
i couldn't find anything like them at the john deere place... |
Soldier, ouch! 28 bucks for that. Has to be a better way. Have welder will weld. Thanks! _________________ For a Good time |
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Jowlz The Anti-Purist
Joined: May 02, 2005 Posts: 2464 Location: Tunkhannock, PA
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Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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tuff_puff wrote: |
right gomer. fox makes two kinds of air shocks smooth body (non coil over) and treaded body (coil over) here is a pic of my air shocks that are coil over air shocks. you probubly would not need coils on yours. i have the on mine because i am setting mine up to jump. but you rail will probubly be light enough for just the air shocks.
call chris at oregon motor sports and he will hook you up
503-251-2925
tell him shaun cook sent you
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I hadn't seen the air shocks with the springs. I bought shocks last year. When I was buying fox told me the air shocks were designed more for low speed use like crawling etc. Has this info changed with the addition of the springs? _________________ The honey-do list put my project on hold....... |
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corndog2 Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006 Posts: 10
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Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:18 am Post subject: Thanks for the advice/suggestions |
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This has been very helpful.
I have a much better idea of what folks are using.
I have some decisions to make.
Its been great to see the pics of these buggies(even if they have gone end over end...ouch).
I'm sure I'll have more question soon...
Just want to get this frame rolling at this time.
best
Corndog2 |
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turboblue Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2003 Posts: 4216 Location: Central Indiana
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Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:52 am Post subject: |
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I found a pic of my Fox shocks.
They are pretty old but have never leaked off any.
Have had these on for ar least 15 years.
These and the wishbone trailing arms are the whole suspension of this car.
Straight liner only though...............
You can see the shock at the left tire, the rod is pretty massive, about an 1-1/4" or so in diameter. _________________ Gary
Turbo VW Sand Drag Buggy
"If you don't run into the Devil every once in awhile, you must be going in the same direction!" |
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bajaherbie Samba Sooner
Joined: November 27, 2003 Posts: 2985 Location: altus, oklahoma
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Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:39 am Post subject: |
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when somebody says air shocks, i think of those old gabriel hi-jackers or what turboblue has on his buggy.
tuff puffs shocks are what i would call a nitrogen charged shock with a dual rate coil-over kit on them. i wouldn't call them an air shock.....
i think the original question was about air shocks...... _________________ blank |
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turboblue Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2003 Posts: 4216 Location: Central Indiana
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Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:21 am Post subject: |
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bajaherbie wrote: |
when somebody says air shocks, i think of those old gabriel hi-jackers or what turboblue has on his buggy.
tuff puffs shocks are what i would call a nitrogen charged shock with a dual rate coil-over kit on them. i wouldn't call them an air shock.....
i think the original question was about air shocks...... |
Those on my buggy are Fox nitrogen shocks.
Might be similar in design but not remotely close to a Gabriel Hi Jacker...
Mine are designed to hold the rear of the car up.
That's why the shaft is so large.
Air shocks to me are like the Hi Jackers you mention.
Made to go in the place of a stock shock but just to lift the rear of a street car.
You could never use Hi Jackers to support the rear of a mid engine buggy like the Fox nitrogen version does.
tuff puff, Jowls and penguins posts are of a different design of the same thing.
The original question was about coilovers vs. nitrogen billet shocks.
I was merely showing corndog2 the coil overless version of a Fox nitrogen shock.
It's all good when it's a mid engine....... _________________ Gary
Turbo VW Sand Drag Buggy
"If you don't run into the Devil every once in awhile, you must be going in the same direction!" |
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tuff_puff Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2006 Posts: 288 Location: Longview WA,
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Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:23 am Post subject: |
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baja. they are a "air shock" they use nitro cuz it has no moisture in it. there for no corosion. "nitro charged" still use oil to slow them down. the nitro is just to keep the oil from makeing froth. also it harder to find a air pump to go to #250psi like i am running in mine now i think they go up to like #350-#400psi but that would be awful stiff. also i have seen long travel rails. (a-arm 20" type) that use just air shocks front and rear. no springs no torsion bars. just shocks.
runslikeapenguin. there are LOTS of mid engine rails that are "long travel" infact mid engines jump WAY better then rear engines. for the most part. cuz they are so balanced.
my clevis ends i got from oregon motor sports. (503) 251-2925 in portland i think there like $25 ea. i little pricey but it make adjustment sooooooo easy! just drill a hole weld a tube. done! |
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Skidmark Samba Member
Joined: June 17, 2005 Posts: 2988 Location: Minden, NV
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Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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The nitrogen is used mainly due to it not expanding with heat like air does. Road racers use it in their tires as well since they can limit the amount of pressure build up when the tires heat up. Tire pressure is critical to gain maximum traction. Yes, the pressure is to keep the oil from foaming. _________________ "It's not complicated, it's just expensive!"
WARNING! This person has been consumed by the Dark Side.
www.socalbajas.com
http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q148/bajaskidmark/SCBaja.jpg |
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