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nsracing Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2003 Posts: 9437 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:39 am Post subject: Crankshaft Dynamic Balancing |
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Sometimes you just gotta step up to the plate. I bought this Stewart Warner Crankshaft balancer to keep my errands down to/from the local machine shop for balance work. For the money the shop has charged me and the gas or aggravation it cost me, I could have paid for this machine over the years.
It is an older machine, but she is still good. It even came with bobweights and rod balancing equipments. Not bad.
Heavens forbid should the Westcoast folks think of us EasCoast folks as all hicks. We EastCoast people know what a balancer looks like.
Whaddaya think?
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novetti Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2004 Posts: 469
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:49 am Post subject: |
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Seems a very nice rig!
Congrats
Julio |
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spook Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2003 Posts: 2038 Location: in the shop 35750
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kcabtsaf Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2005 Posts: 98 Location: White Rock, BC, Canada
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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It must not have been used much, it looks brand new! Very cool!
You have a setup most of us can only dream about. Have fun and keep us posted.
Later,
Jeff |
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nsracing Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2003 Posts: 9437 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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I think this rig came from a school. The pieces do not show much wear at all.
Old stuff is still good. The Stewart Warner company still uses these machines.
I had to empty quite a few kitty jars for this one. I will be a slave to my wife for the next few months.
Nothing is free. |
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redbluebug Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2005 Posts: 50
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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You have some cool toys |
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craigman Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004 Posts: 2397 Location: redding
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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Man, that thing is cool NSR!
I would love to play in your garage for a day!
Craig |
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Oakley Diesel Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2006 Posts: 523 Location: Lubbock, TX
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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So what are you gonna start charging for pricing _________________ Let my name be Feared at the gates of Hell as I exault the Savior!!
72 Super EJ20 turbo install in progress!
04 Excursion 6.0 w/ Spartan tunes |
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nsracing Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2003 Posts: 9437 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:36 am Post subject: |
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Easy boys. I have to get it hooked up and running and see where things are at. This model is Stewart Warner 2000 and the most popular top-of-line in its hayday. Used mainly in the aircraft and automotive industries.
It is supposed to have been a really good machine. We shall see.
You can bet that I will save a few people some money. We just help everyone out. How is that? Building relationships...good friendship...peace on earth and goodwill to men.
And women.
If I were older, I would have been a hippie.
Last edited by nsracing on Thu Nov 23, 2006 12:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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novetti Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2004 Posts: 469
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Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 9:35 am Post subject: |
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Yep!
I would install a headliner or two in exchange of getting a balacing job in engine I would assemble in future.
BTW, tomorrow I will be picking up at the shop in my neighboorhood (pulley,crank,flywheel and pressure plate) I left there to be balanced.
They charged me 60 U$ to get the pressure surface of the flywheel ground flat again and everything balanced. Not a bad price, and they are skilled people who know what to do.
Good luck comissioning the balancer.
Cheers,
Julio |
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nsracing Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2003 Posts: 9437 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 8:20 am Post subject: |
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novetti wrote: |
Yep!
I would install a headliner or two in exchange of getting a balacing job in engine I would assemble in future.
BTW, tomorrow I will be picking up at the shop in my neighboorhood (pulley,crank,flywheel and pressure plate) I left there to be balanced.
They charged me 60 U$ to get the pressure surface of the flywheel ground flat again and everything balanced. Not a bad price, and they are skilled people who know what to do.
Good luck comissioning the balancer.
Cheers,
Julio |
That is a good price on the balance work. But your labor is also worth money. So just be careful people do not take advantage of you.
There will be freeloaders everywhere. You just gotta watch out for them also.
Good luck to you too, man. |
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nsracing Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2003 Posts: 9437 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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Well...I finally got the Balancer in the garage and played with it. I must say it is quite a bit of reading about the theory of dynamic balancing. Not too bad though.
The Stewart Warner is very simple to use, indeed. There is always the "light side" and the "heavy side"...and the strobe just shows you where. The meter is direct reading... in oz. inches.
Here is a CW crank that was given to me and I tested it. The left side had 0.5 oz. inch unbalance. I put the trial clay on the "light side" so I can see the improvement...just testing the machine really...and the unbalance went down to 0.1 oz. inch. That is pretty low by today's standard.
The idea is either add material to the light side or remove the heavy side.
This Stewart Warner is somewhat old school but she can still get down low.
Newer balancers are computerized. They are much simpler to use. You do not even need to read so much on balancing theory.
Pix of unbalance down to 0.1 oz inch/ play dough.
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Jake Raby Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2003 Posts: 7433 Location: Aircooled Heaven USA
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Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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Wait till you hang on a pressure plate- thats when the shit hits the fan!
My balancer is computerized but that doesn't mean that it doesn't take tremendous proficicency to get to tight tolerances. I have spent 20+ hours balancing a production engine in the past that had a lightened crank.
You'll see that cranks have to be horrible to ever be way out of balance, this is due to their plane and the small diameter of the throws more than anything else. Flywheels and pressure plates are a different story!
Get in the habit of indexing the components before they come out of the machine for reassembly the proper way. I even index clutch bolts because a few hundredths @ 5+" radius equals to be a nightmare on the sheet.
You'll also learn that different lubes will effect balance as well AND that surface finish of the journals riding on the V blocks is crucial to repeatability..
I mix molyB, STP and our engine assembly lube together for a journal lubricant and I keep it VERY wet all the time! _________________ Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell" |
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gerg a.k.a. 6volt65
Joined: April 25, 2003 Posts: 5454 Location: Monroe, LA
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Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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I had all my stuff balanced at Rimco - not sure how it stacks up against what you guys are doing, but I feel like they are pretty well respected and do good work.
I think my engine feels very 'crisp' compared to before the rebuild / stroker conversion. _________________ Gerg
. . . I got 99 problems and my bus ain't one . . .
'65 Sunroof Beetle
'65 Vert
'60 Singlecab |
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nsracing Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2003 Posts: 9437 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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I am about to hang the flywheel...from another motor. Just to see.
I see pics of this same model Stewart Warner with giant jet engine shit on it. I am pretty sure the flywheels will be fun and so are the pulleys.
I am thinking of machining a degreed indexing plate so I can hang weights on it to really pinpoint the unbalance on cranks and pulleys.
The machine only have the rollers now but I take it I will need to machine some Delrin V-blocks for other stuff.
It is a good thing I got this machine with all the Bobweights on there already. They wanted $3000 for the V8 and V6 set. I did not even ask how much the rod and scales will cost me. I already have them with the package anyway. I just wanted to see how I made out with the purchase.
I am just trying to see if I am still happy after the fact. |
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slowtwitch Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2004 Posts: 730 Location: just north of philly
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Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 4:07 am Post subject: |
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Nice machine , Nick. It's been over 20 years since I've done it. Back in the day, I worked for Westinghouse repairing large electric motors and we used a similar setup for balancing armatures and rotors. Balancing can offer many challenges, enjoy your new toy
pete |
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nsracing Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2003 Posts: 9437 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:28 am Post subject: |
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slowtwitch wrote: |
Nice machine , Nick. It's been over 20 years since I've done it. Back in the day, I worked for Westinghouse repairing large electric motors and we used a similar setup for balancing armatures and rotors. Balancing can offer many challenges, enjoy your new toy
pete |
It is interesting that a lot l literatures on dynmaic balancing features a Stewart Warner machine. I guess this machine was used heavily in industrial applications...Grade E or better (Ultra Balance)...parts that will turn 22,000 RPM. Crazy.
I was told by the man himself at Stewart... there is no such thing as ZERO UNBALANCE. There will always be some left. But if you know the tolerance of the speed the part will run and its weight, you do NOT need to get down that low. He called that "entertaining yourself"...whatever that means.
Anyway...when I get caught up with things I will help out with balance work here and there.
I was worried I bought a dud but maybe not.
Cheers. |
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nsracing Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2003 Posts: 9437 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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gblakeney wrote: |
I had all my stuff balanced at Rimco - not sure how it stacks up against what you guys are doing, but I feel like they are pretty well respected and do good work.
I think my engine feels very 'crisp' compared to before the rebuild / stroker conversion. |
GB,
There are differences in the tolerance in balance work. The further down you take the unbalance the more work it is...hence the more the cost.
Did RIMCO give a tolerance sheet of the balance work?
From what I have read, 0.2 - 0.3 oz. inch unbalance for HIgh Perf (racing), 0.5 oz inch for street...all according to Stewart Warner.
I know some shops do around 0.7 oz inch for stock performance. Not too bad. |
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75smith Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2011 Posts: 2275 Location: NH
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Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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digging up this because it's the most relevant(kind of) thread I found
I'm trying to find a place that will balance the internals of my engine-namely the crankshaft, flywheel etc.; I will/can balance the rods and pistons myself
live in southern New Hampshire, about 20 minutes from the Mass line and 20 minutes from the Vermont line, trying to find a place within 2 hours(around 150 miles for you guys that don't speak time travel) but any leads will be nice
thought I had a spot, but apparently they "can't" balance flat 4's(they apparently do a nice job with 911's though?) other spot went out of business a few years ago
thanks guys _________________ My 1975 Beetle Build Updated 8-21-12
My engine build |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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you sure you can do the rods? |
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