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Bloku
Expert Noob
Joined: April 09, 2013
Posts: 559
Location: Tulsa/Jenks Oklahoma
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 Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 8:02 am Post subject: Best Affordable Header |
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Howdy people! I have a huge flat spot with my thunder bird headers (like everyone said I would a few years back  ) and I am in the market for some good 4 to 1, 1 3/8th inch headers for my 1641. Everyone in the search said that a Bugpack would do the trick, but it seems that they have discontinued making them or something of the sort  . The next thing that was in the same price range was an EMPI header and i'm certainly not doing that!
Does anyone know where to get either some BugPack headers or some similar in quality and price for a car with heater boxes? I would like to have them ceramic coated too. Thank you!
_________________
1971 Karmann Ghia
1975 Porsche 914
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1975 BMW 2002
1976 BMW 2002 (Bored and Stroked w/ 5-Speed)
1981 BMW E21
1986 Toyota 4Runner (Dead engine and trans)
1989 Toyota 4x4 PU
1994 BMW E36 (Daily) |
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KROC
Samba Member
Joined: February 20, 2006
Posts: 359
Location: Vancouver B.C.
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TheAmazingDave
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2013
Posts: 788
Location: San Jose, CA
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Bloku
Expert Noob
Joined: April 09, 2013
Posts: 559
Location: Tulsa/Jenks Oklahoma
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| Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 8:29 am Post subject: |
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Just found this - http://www.mamotorworks.com/vw/product/header-ceramic-coated_308059
It is ceramic coated and $160. Also, it is bugpack. I also found a ceramic coated muffler that is also bug pack for $90 slightly used. Do you think that the picture of the muffler (below) will work on the bug pack header (above)? I ask this because the seller is selling two bugpack mufflers... one that is new on a MERGED header and the other, $90 used one, is for an unmentioned header. The angle looks the same as the header (above) though. Anyone know?
_________________
1971 Karmann Ghia
1975 Porsche 914
-----
1975 BMW 2002
1976 BMW 2002 (Bored and Stroked w/ 5-Speed)
1981 BMW E21
1986 Toyota 4Runner (Dead engine and trans)
1989 Toyota 4x4 PU
1994 BMW E36 (Daily) |
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Motor60
Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2014
Posts: 625
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 8:52 am Post subject: |
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| Yes I believe it will. I had a bugpack header (non-merged) and installed a bullet muffler from A-1 Mufflers...The triangle was the same |
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Bloku
Expert Noob
Joined: April 09, 2013
Posts: 559
Location: Tulsa/Jenks Oklahoma
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| Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 8:56 am Post subject: |
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I know that the triangle is the same, but on the header, the lhd passenger side of it is just about parallel to the ground and the muffler has a bit of an angle,so it might point to the ground.... aka no good.
_________________
1971 Karmann Ghia
1975 Porsche 914
-----
1975 BMW 2002
1976 BMW 2002 (Bored and Stroked w/ 5-Speed)
1981 BMW E21
1986 Toyota 4Runner (Dead engine and trans)
1989 Toyota 4x4 PU
1994 BMW E36 (Daily) |
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jpaull
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005
Posts: 3466
Location: Paradise, Ca
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| Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:41 am Post subject: |
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For $169 you can get a nice stainless header from carcraft:
http://carcraftstore.com/stainlesssteelheaderonly.aspx
The ceramic turn to crap after awhile, stainless alot better and carcraft has muffler and any other goodies needed on same page
Jeff
_________________
[email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg
Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth. |
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mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 11:27 am Post subject: |
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| if stainless is withen $50. go for it. |
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Northof49
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2013
Posts: 1759
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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I'm happy with the bugpack ceramic header and hideaway muffler on my 1600.
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1958 Karmann Ghia owner |
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rockerarm
Samba Member
Joined: December 16, 2009
Posts: 3552
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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Hi. There are some variances in many of the exhaust mfg's but the standard for many guys is to have the upper/top hole of the small 3-bolt flange at the 1 O'clock position. The flange on that fat-boy muffler looks to not be that way. If the prices suit you then a good muffler shop, or any fabricator, can cut the flange and re-index it to your liking. I believe getting a large muffler like the one in the pic indexed correctly for your application. There are gonna be some variables, such as trans mounts and body of your car.
Bill. |
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Bloku
Expert Noob
Joined: April 09, 2013
Posts: 559
Location: Tulsa/Jenks Oklahoma
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| Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you very much, everyone! I bought that header from mid american motor works and I also bought a dual quiet pack setup. I just sold my old kadrons and am getting a new set. I will post how differently it is with the new headers and mufflers and then with the exhaust and kadrons.
_________________
1971 Karmann Ghia
1975 Porsche 914
-----
1975 BMW 2002
1976 BMW 2002 (Bored and Stroked w/ 5-Speed)
1981 BMW E21
1986 Toyota 4Runner (Dead engine and trans)
1989 Toyota 4x4 PU
1994 BMW E36 (Daily) |
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rockerarm
Samba Member
Joined: December 16, 2009
Posts: 3552
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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Ok. I'm curious about the muffler setup on the ghia, as the bodywork is shaped differently. I think the standard is the muffler(s) will be angled for the bug's body shape. The ghia and for discussion, the bus share a similar rear body shape, and the muffler followed the body's shape a bit nicer.
Bill. |
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Bloku
Expert Noob
Joined: April 09, 2013
Posts: 559
Location: Tulsa/Jenks Oklahoma
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| Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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Here, I found some pics online -
This next one is for merged headers so they sit further out and lower
_________________
1971 Karmann Ghia
1975 Porsche 914
-----
1975 BMW 2002
1976 BMW 2002 (Bored and Stroked w/ 5-Speed)
1981 BMW E21
1986 Toyota 4Runner (Dead engine and trans)
1989 Toyota 4x4 PU
1994 BMW E36 (Daily) |
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Northof49
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2013
Posts: 1759
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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Bugpack hide away on my ghia, with bugpack ceramic coated header. Some cutting and turning of the muffler, so I am glad I didn't buy ceramic for the actual muffler assembly.
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1958 Karmann Ghia owner |
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Bloku
Expert Noob
Joined: April 09, 2013
Posts: 559
Location: Tulsa/Jenks Oklahoma
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| Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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Question. How do dual quiet packs compare to single quiet pack mufflers in the noise level? And how loud are quiet pack mufflers compared to lets say stock or a stinger 
_________________
1971 Karmann Ghia
1975 Porsche 914
-----
1975 BMW 2002
1976 BMW 2002 (Bored and Stroked w/ 5-Speed)
1981 BMW E21
1986 Toyota 4Runner (Dead engine and trans)
1989 Toyota 4x4 PU
1994 BMW E36 (Daily) |
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LeninCas
Samba Member
Joined: February 05, 2013
Posts: 447
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 12:27 am Post subject: |
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The muffler has a different bend if it is going on a merged header or a standard header. Make sure you know what you need if you are buying them seperate.
I would opt out for a merged header, it's about $50 more but the merged collector.
I sell 1 3/8s in. merged header and muffler for $190. Same excellent quality headers made in USA w/ THICK flanges.
Quietpacks are quiet, hence the name 
You'll be okay with a single quietpack though, no need for duals.
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one, two, many
one too many |
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andk5591
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 16758
Location: State College, PA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 3:59 am Post subject: Re: Best Affordable Header |
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| Bloku wrote: |
Howdy people! I have a huge flat spot with my thunder bird headers (like everyone said I would a few years back ) and I am in the market for some good 4 to 1, 1 3/8th inch headers for my 1641. Everyone in the search said that a Bugpack would do the trick, but it seems that they have discontinued making them or something of the sort . The next thing that was in the same price range was an EMPI header and i'm certainly not doing that!
Does anyone know where to get either some BugPack headers or some similar in quality and price for a car with heater boxes? I would like to have them ceramic coated too. Thank you! |
So why do you think the header is causing your flat spot? If its too big, you will lose low end torque, but a flat spot? I seriously doubt it. More info on the rest of your combo would be a nice thing.
And as far as header - I have been using Bug Pack almost exclusively. The ceramic ones hold up quite well. The muffler component depends on what you want for the look and sound, but does impact performance some. Based on tests I have read (real tests) and testing I have done on a chassis dyno, the hide-away and single quite packs do very well for a modest engine. If you want louder, the Tri-Mill hot dog style is a very good performing muffler as well.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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Bloku
Expert Noob
Joined: April 09, 2013
Posts: 559
Location: Tulsa/Jenks Oklahoma
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:46 am Post subject: |
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Andk5591. The header is a 1.5 inch and has the large flange collector. I am about 80% that this is the problem because along with the flat spot I have a huge lack of low end torque.
A pic of the size of my header -
_________________
1971 Karmann Ghia
1975 Porsche 914
-----
1975 BMW 2002
1976 BMW 2002 (Bored and Stroked w/ 5-Speed)
1981 BMW E21
1986 Toyota 4Runner (Dead engine and trans)
1989 Toyota 4x4 PU
1994 BMW E36 (Daily) |
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| Back to top |
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andk5591
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 16758
Location: State College, PA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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I was running a Thunderbird "quiet one" on our buggy several years ago. Same deal - was 1.5". This was on a 1776 (I think) with dual Kads and an SVDA distributor. I changed to a 1 3/8" and it was a noticable increase in low end - BUT there was no flat spot before and after.....
Once again - a little more on your combo will shed some light on the flat spot because I dont believe its your header. It may make it seem worse, but is not the cause. Just my 2 cents.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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rockerarm
Samba Member
Joined: December 16, 2009
Posts: 3552
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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Hi. The size of the collector opening on how it affects the running on our small displacement motors has been known for 30+ years. The success rate of the S&S, FourTuned, Phoenix 1 3/8 systems speaks for itself.
Bill. |
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