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markie61
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2005
Posts: 583
Location: Northern Virginia
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 Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:04 pm Post subject: Thing rollover |
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Found this on another site - pretty scary pictures http://lists.topica.com/lists/things/read/message.html?mid=812230829&sort=d&start=32182
Thanks goodness for cages, seatbelts, and carseats!
Just wondering out loud ... the amount of cargo on top of the cage and the water jugs high up in the luggage area maybe raised the center of gravity....? Combined with the exit ramp and speed, it may have contributed to the rollover.
It's truly amazing nobody was hurt - so glad to hear that.
Let's be careful out there....
Mark
_________________
Whut is that-there Thang!?
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Chicks dig my Thing - so what if it's little and yellow...!? |
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Ferretkona
Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2005
Posts: 1306
Location: Columbia, CA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:36 pm Post subject: Re: Thing rollover |
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| markie61 wrote: |
| Just wondering out loud ... the amount of cargo on top of the cage and the water jugs high up in the luggage area maybe raised the center of gravity....? Combined with the exit ramp and speed, it may have contributed to the rollover. Mark |
Not to mention the unexperienced unlicenced driver. Apparently driving too fast.
The owner even says "and I started shouting "slow down slow down SLOW DOWN..." a bit too late" |
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WD-40
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2006
Posts: 1178
Location: Iowa
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| Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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Bad day
Ian Epperson
Jul 07, 2006 22:21 PDT
On the 4th, I drove my tiger striped '73 out to the Nevada desert -
the same location as Burning Man - and had a great couple of days.
Loaded up the car - even put a board and metal bars on the roll bar
for a make-shift roof rack:
Took the kids along too:
Leo and Terry (6 and 4) were in the back with their booster seats and
lap belts. My step-son, Nickolas, has just got his learners permit
and wanted to help me drive.
We had a blast in the desert - the Thing is a perfect car out there!
On Monday, I put the back seats down and had some friends standing in
the back while I drove out over the 4-wheel roads to the hot springs
with the music cranked up. Great time!
The night before we came back, I only got 4 hours of sleep and drove
us to the Sierras (Donner Pass), then I let Nick take over. He was
handling the car well - keeping the speed down and watching the temp.
He noticed we were low on gas, so we decided to take the next turn off
- Colfax. It's a quick, sharp offramp and has a 20mph sign. Nick
only slightly let off the pedal going into it, and I started shouting
"slow down slow down SLOW DOWN..." a bit too late. The car
(thankfully) understeered, went off the road, missed a tree by 5 or 10
feet, skidded, then flipped. We were only going about 15 or 20 when
we went over:
No one was hurt. Got that!?! No one was hurt!! About a year and a
half ago when I had the body work done, I had the shop reinforce the
roll bars mount points and install 3-point belts in the front. Thank
God! The extra metal we put on for the roof rack mostly protected the
windshield frame and it only moved an inch or so - it cracked, but
didn't hit us.
Leo let himself out of his belt and bumped his head on the roof rack,
Terry started crying, and I scrambled out (the window fell out of my
way, then when I opened the door, it popped off! I loved that feature
just then!) and found Terry suspended from his seatbelt perfectly
seated. Nick got out with Leo, then tried his best to kick himself -
he still feels horrible.
The paramedics looked at the car, said that we should be hurt, and
strongly suggested a ride to the hospitol - which we did and
discovered that I had the only injury - a small scrape on my leg. The
bandaid helped.
So, now the car. Left front fender has a new, unusual shape. The
windshield frame is about an inch farther back on the drivers side
than it should be. Windshield is shattered. The roll bar seems to
have bent about an inch to the right - and the door posts (attached to
the roll bar) are about a half-inch to the right. The hood won't
close properly with the left side being about a half-inch higher than
the right. The left-front camber is way way off and the suspension is
probably damaged. The gas tank fell out, probably breaking the lines.
The left tires need remounting - if the rims aren't out of round.
The engine jumped to the left during the roll (seems OK now) and bent
up the left-side tin and broke the air hose from the oil-bath air
cleaner. The exhaust bent down on the right. There's an array of
small scratches and minor dings on the left side.
I was going to spend the rest of my summer putting in my new Type4
2270 from Jake Raby. I had planned on rebuilding the suspension and
replacing the tranny also. Now I'm adding body and paint to my list.
Sigh! It could have been much much worse.
I learned a lesson. If someone has a learner's permit, it means they
don't know how to drive yet. The one with the license is the tutor
and should NOT be sleepy. I should have told him to slow down way
before the turn - he didn't know. Nick learned a big lesson too about
speed and handling. Hopefully, our lessons aren't too expensive.
Thank God that price didn't include anyones' life.
Ian Epperson
Proud owner of Scrappy, tiger striped and injured '73 |
This really does demonstrate the usefulness of a real roll cage- especially on an open vehicle such as a Thing.
Unfortunately, most of the Thing cages out there are show cages, and have things such as non-continuous hoops with tubes welded end-to-end. There's a reason why the NHRA and SCCA racing classes don't allow those- they aren't strong enough.
So to anyone who looks at this and thinks "Wow! I really need a cage!" - make sure you pay attention to what you're actually getting.
- David |
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suntour
Samba Member
Joined: November 25, 2004
Posts: 443
Location: Woodinville, WA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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Wow, His floor boards are in great shape!
_________________
Order of the Voodoo Spoon |
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blk73bug
Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2006
Posts: 13
Location: oklahoma
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| Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| nice thing no more |
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Woreign
Samba Member
Joined: June 04, 2006
Posts: 2841
Location: Crestview FL
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| Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Where would one find a strong functional roll cage? I checked the Thing Shop and they only sell a "show-bar"... |
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thevanillaninja
Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2004
Posts: 704
Location: Scott, IL
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| Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Woreign wrote: |
| Where would one find a strong functional roll cage? I checked the Thing Shop and they only sell a "show-bar"... |
Most cages are custom-built, actually.
_________________
1967 Zenith Blue Type 1 "Elaine"
Bought in 2004
Stored for 4 1/2 years and soon to be resurrected..
'67 beetle |
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Ferretkona
Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2005
Posts: 1306
Location: Columbia, CA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| I feel better after I beefed up our roll bar. You have to accept the liability when you do your own welding. |
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FreakCitySF
Samba Member
Joined: June 08, 2004
Posts: 642
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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Thats scary,
I'm keeping my car on the road and in the city. I alreayd decided that long ago.
I had the original roll bar, didnt like it, sold it, but would like to make a beefier Kubel style side impact bar, for city driving at least
I wouldnt offroad without a real roll bar though, and thank god he had a real roll bar. |
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WD-40
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2006
Posts: 1178
Location: Iowa
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| Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Woreign wrote: |
| Where would one find a strong functional roll cage? I checked the Thing Shop and they only sell a "show-bar"... |
The one from the Thing Shop is actually the one I have a beef with. I couldn't find any good pictures that show it though, and the ones on their web site all have the padding on to cover the seams... 
- David |
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WD-40
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2006
Posts: 1178
Location: Iowa
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| Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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I found this pic over in the ShopTalkForums... It was a very simple cage- but as you can see, it did the job.
- David |
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Towel Rail
Horizontally Opposed
Joined: April 15, 2005
Posts: 4622
Location: SE CR IA US NA PE
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 1:16 am Post subject: |
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| WD-40 wrote: |
I found this pic over in the ShopTalkForums... It was a very simple cage- but as you can see, it did the job.
- David |
Wow. It help up well, despite having no triangulation whatsoever. |
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Towel Rail
Horizontally Opposed
Joined: April 15, 2005
Posts: 4622
Location: SE CR IA US NA PE
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 1:19 am Post subject: |
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| FreakCitySF wrote: |
| I had the original roll bar, didnt like it, sold it, but would like to make a beefier Kubel style side impact bar, for city driving at least |
It's not a "side impact bar", it's simply a brace for the flimsy door columns. |
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LEJ
Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2006
Posts: 115
Location: Ontario, Calif.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 8:05 am Post subject: |
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I learned a lesson. If someone has a learner's permit, it means they
don't know how to drive yet. The one with the license is the tutor
and should NOT be sleepy. I should have told him to slow down way
before the turn - he didn't know. Nick learned a big lesson too about
speed and handling. Hopefully, our lessons aren't too expensive.
Thank God that price didn't include anyone's life.
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I too am glad that no one was hurt. Car's can be replaced, people can't
I am a bit disturbed, just as others are on this board, that the driver only learned 1 lesson.
The 2nd lesson he should have learned is physics/gravity. The car would have probably been able to negotiate the turn had it not been overloaded and top heavy.
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The more you know, the more you know you don't know. |
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WD-40
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2006
Posts: 1178
Location: Iowa
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 9:29 am Post subject: |
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| LEJ wrote: |
| The car would have probably been able to negotiate the turn had it not been overloaded and top heavy. |
Possibly.
I took my SuperBeetle to an autocross event a month or so ago, and had no trouble at all making it understeer - in fact, it was difficult to avoid. Due to the track size, I was nowhere near the highway speeds that they would have been going either.
Beyond that there is some other knowledge that many racers learn the hard way- that is, if you get off the track and into the grass at speed, you hit the brakes and hold the wheel straight as you ride it out until you stop. Cranking the wheel is a sure way to get the tire to hook in a rut and flip your vehicle. There's video clips out there of this happening to all sorts of cars - BMWs, race prepped Porsches, etc. Cars that are in no way top heavy or overloaded.
- David |
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LEJ
Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2006
Posts: 115
Location: Ontario, Calif.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 10:10 am Post subject: |
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I'm not saying that gravity and being overloaded was the Primary Collision Factor. And I'm not saying that the vehicle wouldn't have rolled over had it not been loaded in the manner that is depicted in the photo.
Based on my experiences, the PCF will be most likely be listed as excessive speed.
What I am saying is that being overloaded and being top heavy was a significant factor in this event.
And again, I'm glad no one was hurt.
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The more you know, the more you know you don't know. |
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TimGud
Samba Member
Joined: March 03, 2002
Posts: 6459
Location: Rio Rico Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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deleted
Last edited by TimGud on Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:54 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Thingggg
Samba Member
Joined: June 30, 2004
Posts: 353
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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Being overloaded toward aft was the problem--not top.
Speed had little to do with it--wouldn't tale much loaded like this, putting on the breaks made it worse.
This is why it caught an edge and flipped—because of all the crap loaded aft not height. This was Nader’s complaint of the VW--terminal overseer. This guy should extend his roll bar forward over the front and move his junk forward. Putting all this crap near the back caused this catastrophe. The Thing is backend heavy anyway and would flip around in an instant in a skid loaded this way—DON’T DO IT. If you do let some air out the front tires and add to rear. I bet it then rolled a tire off the rim because of intense camber produced in the rear suspension produced by this type of skid and activating the front breaks hard made it much worse.
WD-40 I could see you experiencing the opposite, understeer when accelerating hard in tight corners. Also I bet VW attempted to correct overstear with struts suspenssion, though I don't know this for sure. Hight and stiffness of front makes a big difference.
This is the stock cage that most all have glad to see it dose the job.
Last edited by Thingggg on Sun Jul 09, 2006 10:41 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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TimGud
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Joined: March 03, 2002
Posts: 6459
Location: Rio Rico Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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deleted
Last edited by TimGud on Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:54 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Thingggg
Samba Member
Joined: June 30, 2004
Posts: 353
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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| In fact installing shorter wider rears or taller narrower fronts will help oversteer--look @ a ATV racer. |
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