Sway. Or anti sway bar questions

Dynaflash · Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:48 pm Post subject: Sway. Or anti sway bar questions

Well I have searched and can't find the answer. Did my 62 bug come with front and or rear anti sway bars? There appear to be none there now and the previous owner did not remove them. Maybe a few owners ago?

Do I need them really?

Car is a 62 with the stock size skinny tires. Lowered a little probably also by a few owners ago.
This car will be used mostly for around town and will probably never see over 70 mph. I am not in a hurry to get anywhere so going around corners at high speed is not an issue. Just want to be as safe as you can be driving a 50 year old car with no computer, no air bags, no seat belts, drum brakes and no 5 mile per hour bumpers.

61SNRF · Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 6:12 pm Post subject:

Dynaflash · Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 6:44 pm Post subject:

Some very good points. Thanks.

Not to change the subject but I have decided to make an owners manual of sorts so that when the when the next owner gets the car he will know what is what. I wish I had this for my car so I could figure out a few things. Like why did he remove the anti sway bar?

[email protected] · Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 6:58 pm Post subject:

Out of curiosity I removed by anti-sway bar, I really can't tell the difference. I'll drive it without for a couple of months and put it on, maybe then I can tell a difference.

drscope · Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 7:16 pm Post subject:

Do you need a front sway bar?
Do you need a seat belt?
Do you need a spare tire?
Do you need insurance?

Nope. Not until you need them and then you'll be glad you have them. After the fact it's a little too late.

Understand that the swing axle king & link pin VW is one of the most evil handling cars on the planet.

For many people this isn't much of an issue during their normal driving.
Of course, neither is having a spare tire. But when you have a flat, you need a good spare that has air in it as well as a jack and a lug wrench.

And when things get out of shape, a seat belt helps to keep you behind the wheel where you may get lucky and be able to hang on instead of getting tossed around the cabin.

Sway bars are simply tools to help tune the chassis. Adding a sway bar, or increasing the stiffness of a sway bar at one end of the car adds grip to the pavement at the other end of the car.

The VW is prone to oversteer which means the rear breaks away in a corner. Because of the rear weight bias of the car, the rear tires break free before the fronts.

VW added the front sway bar in an effort to try to reduce the car’s tendency to oversteer. They didn’t add a rear bar because a rear bar increases grip at the front wheels which in turn causes the rears to break free first.

MILLIONS of people drove these cars everyday without them and few ever had a problem. So in the words of Clint Eastwood, Are you feeling lucky?

It’s that panic situation where you need to take evasive action that makes these types of things worth their weight in gold. You may get fortunate and never find yourself in that sort of situation. But if you are, a sway bar might help.

Another item that is a very big help in just those sorts of circumstances is the Camber Compensator. The swing axle has a tendency in extreme cornering situations to have the outside loaded wheel tuck under. When that happens you are immediately on your head. The Camber Compensator helps a lot in those situations and is something I highly recommend.
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61SNRF · Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 7:32 pm Post subject:

With a 50+ year old car sooo many things can happen.

If the car is lowered in the front, good chances are it might have been taken off to do the work involved.

Given that, some people find the stock front stabilizer bar mountings fiddly and tedious, so they often are often found missing on lowered or modified cars.

Or, perhaps the mounting hardware was rusted out and new ones were not in the budget or easily available at the time of repairs.

Those are some known reasons for example, and there will always be the "I don't feel any difference without it" notion.
(#1 reason why I quoted the high percentage of car makers who use them, together they have all done enough scientific and quantitative testing to justify their benefits). Razz

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An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Aussiebug · Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:45 pm Post subject:

bluebus86 · Banned Joined: September 02, 2010 Posts: 11075

Dynaflash · Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 8:19 am Post subject:

Ok. First let me clear up some things.
I am not interested in driving this car in an unsafe manner. I will add seat belts, radial tires, disc brakes, dual master and a few other things that I have read about here.
As for the owners manual I was talking about. I don't mean a VW owners manual, I mean a notebook that tells every modification that I make so that the next owner will not have so many questions, like I do now.

The lack of a sway bar just seems strange to me. I wish I knew what the previous owner was thinking. What else has he done that I will need to fix? We will see.

Thanks for your help

panicman · Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 4:19 pm Post subject:

I thought a diary for the car during my restoration was a good idea, and I am glad I did it. I took all my notes, receipts, and other paperwork and pictures from my time fixing the car up and made a binder in the end with index tabs for body, parts sourcing and purchases, instructions I found along the way, and I kept a spiral diary to stay on track and organized, and made illustrations of the car to break out sanding and bodywork zones to stay focused.

This is for a keeper; I'm not a fix-it-up-and-sell-it guy.

It is very helpful, as I have a record of where I got everything, how much it cost, and then my spiral book has my thoughts, frustrations, and any changed plans in it. It's entertaining to grab a drink and re-read it!

I also used it to total up the cost of the resto.... Holy crap, what ever happened to these cars being cheap?!
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Aussiebug · Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 7:51 pm Post subject:

Dake · Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:00 pm Post subject:

Can you get a sway bar for a 2 inch narrowed beam?

drscope · Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:12 pm Post subject:

[email protected] · Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:14 pm Post subject:

I took my sway bar off so it would handle forest roads better. I was surprised how little if effected handling. It leans just a couple more degrees in a turn, almost unnoticeable. That is why my sway bar is missing. Although I plan on putting it back on in a few months to see if I notice when it goes back on.

nvrgvupjw

Dynaflash

EVfun · Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 8:18 pm Post subject:

Todd66 · Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:11 pm Post subject:

Alternate Hardware-the only way to go:
http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Stainless-Steel-Swaybar-Clamp-Kit-Ball-Joint-T1-p/6500-51.htm
2" Narrowed bar for ball joint beam with alternate hardware:
http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Narrowed-3-4-Swaybar-Lowered-Ball-Joint-Type-1-p/6500-41-6500-41-bl.htm
2" Narrowed bar for link pin beam w/ alternate hardware
http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Narrowed-3-4-Swaybar-Lowered-Link-Pin-Type-1-p/6500-40-6500-40-bl.htm

nvrgvupjw

bill may · Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:15 pm Post subject:

1960 model year was 1st to have front sway bar. no 1938-1967 had a rear sway bar. 1967 had a zbar setup which was overload setup. they used smaller od torsion bars in 67 making them have the 67 droop in rear.
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