Wheels and Tires...compiling a list...ever so slowly

FlyA181

I just picked up a set of stock 14" Thing Wheels and want to find some close to original tires in the 185 sr14 size. I'd like something that feels good on the road with perhaps the off road look of the original tire. I definatly don't want a lower profile tire as I'm going for the "tall" original look. Any suggestions?

ztnoo · Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 2:55 pm Post subject:

Here's a handy looking device.
It might help in certain situations.
I got the link off the Kelmark Yahoo list:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Kelmark/
Percy's WheelRite Wheel Fitment Tool

scamutz · Samba Member Joined: July 01, 2004 Posts: 39

Unbelievable...I asked these same damn questions about a year ago, and I still don't have a clue. LOL

wackert · Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:25 pm Post subject:

wow im completly lost with all this stuff lol nothin really makes sense to me

hotrodsurplus · Samba Member Joined: July 02, 2007 Posts: 76

It's been a while since anybody has updated this with critical information. Here are some vital stats for Thing wheels and a few popular alternatives.

This is for five-lug wheels only. Most measurements are based upon my personal experience measuring my wheels; however, I relied on CIP1 for dimensions on the BRM, Porsche 5.5 steelies, and RADER wheels. Your mileage may vary (manufacturing is NOT an exact science and aftermarket wheels are all over the board, even if incrementally).

The abbreviations are as follows:
Typ Type
Dia. Diameter
W Width
BS Backspace
Off. Offset (expressed in mm)

**early, to '65
***aftermarket

Just to re-answer a few inevitable questions before they get asked:

Backspace is the dimension from the backside of the wheel-mounting flange (where it meets the drum) to the rearmost lip of the wheel (the one that faces the centerline of the car).

Offset is the dimension between the wheel-mounting flange and the ACTUAL wheel centerline.

Offset is a consequence of backspace AND wheel width. A narrower wheel with less backspace can have the same offset as a wider wheel with more backspace. Do not go by backspace alone. Offset is the critical dimension.

The greater the offset number, the more POSITIVE the wheel's offset. The hub mounting surface on a positive-offset wheel is closer to the FRONT side of the wheel. As a consequence, positive-offset wheels have flatter 'faces' than negative-offset wheels.

ALL factory VW wheels are HEAVILY POSITIVELY OFFSET for several reasons, the least of them is wheel fit. Wheel offset affects bearing and suspension-component wear, and on the front axle it influences a more complex dynamic called scrub radius which partially determines the vehicle's on-center feel and self-correcting properties, among other things, but that's a topic for another post.*

For our purposes, try to find a wheel with as close to the stock offset as possible (at least for the front). If using a wheel with an adapter or spacer, determine the offset by measuring the wheel backspace with the adapter bolted to the wheel. You CAN alter offset to a degree without tremendously upsetting your car's dynamics. Many people have proven that. BUT, understand that altering offset without knowing vehicle dynamics is a bit of a crapshoot as to whether the vehicle will handle properly. Some countries (Switzerland, possibly Germany, and likely others) forbid using wheels on cars that do not match the car's original wheel offset. Check your local laws.

*again, offset dynamics apply mostly to the front axle; wheel offset on the rear axle is not as critical. But keep it sane; radical rear-wheel offset can damage wheel bearings

NOTES:
1. An early Beetle VW 15x4 wheel has the exact offset as the Thing wheel. Its width limits tire options, but it is correct. While it is not by-the-book correct-width, it is a popular size for 7.00-15 tires and works well (for years it was a popular size with the Centerline bubbles for racers). I have personally run a Thing with 7.00s on early wheels with good results, although the car needs to be lifted considerably for clearance, which combined with the tire construction makes the car ride very stiff. A 7.00-15 on a Thing is a huge commitment (at least in my book).

2. I have also run 215/75-15 tires on 15x6 centerlines with the 4.375" backspace on a near-stock-height Thing with no ill effect (i.e., no rubbing and no handling problems). The beam had adjusters but I barely lifted the car (maybe a bit more than an inch--real conservative).

Captain Spalding · Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:12 pm Post subject:

Nice compilation of wheel data, Hotrod. For those who might have trouble visualizing the whole backspace/offset thing, a picture is worth a thousand words. I posted this last September:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Click on the image to see a larger more legible version.

hotrodsurplus · Samba Member Joined: July 02, 2007 Posts: 76

wbrown45 · Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:55 pm Post subject:

As usual Captain, you have provided another cool graphic. Thanks for all of the positive, valuable information you have given us.
_________________
OK Thang

alex77 · Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:01 am Post subject:

Hi i have late model beetle drums on al 4 wheels and running stock beetle rims

i now that beetle drums narrow the rear track

so far i have the stock rims wich are 4.5 inches wide and running 235/7515 on the rear and 225/75/15 on the front

my question is are the 205/75/15 the best tires to run on 15 wheels???
_________________
73 THING

sam_w · Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:33 am Post subject:

Wide 5 early bus rims were an option on things, look in the parts manual (PDF) I can add a picture with the parts numbers later.
I bought a spare gas tank that fits in the spare. I then found out it was for a 15" rim, and chnged to bus rims, that also match my 63 singlecab.

I have 205-75 16's on my wheels and they are great. Remember that the speedo will now read about 10% slow as the wheels are larger.
_________________
63 singlecab
73 thingster
Vanagon sold! camping in tent

alex77 · Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:18 am Post subject:

but i have 4x130 beetle wheels so i just wanted to ask about the tire size
_________________
73 THING

crofty · Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:15 am Post subject:

sam_w · Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:45 pm Post subject:

Here is the picture of the Thing wheel from the parts PDF
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

I believe that the 15" option that is indeed a 211 part, was mainly for military things in Europe, but I looked at a 75 Military thing today in Livermore and it had 14" wheels.

What is a F181 2617 370?
The spare gas can has two variants and I have the 15" version, and that is the only one shown in the PDF catalog.
_________________
63 singlecab
73 thingster
Vanagon sold! camping in tent

Semper_Dad · Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:56 pm Post subject:

crofty · Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:14 pm Post subject:

SilverThing · Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 6:16 am Post subject:

crofty · Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:57 am Post subject:

SilverThing · Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 1:59 pm Post subject:

Everything I have seen regarding production indicates that the 181 was produced in Germany from 1969-1978, but production at the Wolfsburg plant ceased in 1974. The Puebla plant started production sometime in 1970. Production information is pretty screwy if you ask me. 'Officially' production ended in Mexico for the 1980 model year (I don't recall if those were produce in late 79 or if they were actually made in 80). There are indications that Nato purchased 181 as late as 1983, albeit in very small numbers. I have occasionally seen 181 listed for sale on ebay.de (German ebay) with chassis numbers beginning with 18A, 18B, and 18C. I think the last time I saw one for sale was two years ago (the chassis number and vin tag were both pictured and both had 18B). I saw a German 181 or generic vw (can't remember which) club's member list once on the internet that had a 18C chassis number owned by one of its members. Honestly though, I have no information on the history of these vehicles.

As far as reduction boxes: all Euro, Mex, Inonesian CKD, etc 181 were reduction box until chassis 183 2346 524 and from 183 2346 525 (Germany) or 183 2493 403 (Mexico) all 181 were IRS. The change happened in March of 73 I believe.

I am not really certain as to the reasoning for the switch to 14" rims. I'm guessing, but I suspect that it has to do with the actual tire itself. Perhaps VW decided that the 185r14 was better for an off-road car than 165r15. I don't know for certain though.

I found the 72 owner's manual on 181spirit.com, but my French is practically non-existent (I also can't remember or find my login information for that site either).
_________________
"I like how everyone likes talking about Zeke's Thing yet he's the only one that's ever seen it." - Katie
"I've seen pictures..." - Jeremy

yellow73kubel · Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 2:57 pm Post subject:

crofty · Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 3:08 pm Post subject:

I don't know for certian either. I'm just speculating.

I don't know why they wouldn't just use a bus 14" rim (64-70) rather than tool a new rim other than something changed in the rear end that a different backspace was necessary.

I've read Mexico made them from 71-74 but you know how the internet is. Were the Mexican Things ever RDX box models? Maybe that is where the confusion lies? I've never seen a 73 Mexican Thing with rdx boxes and March of 73 is pretty late into the production year.
_________________
I don't mind eccentric people i just don't care for shit heads.

I am Bastard, hear me Roar-

>Help >Donate >Buy Shirts >Register >Log in	See all Samba banner ads \| Advertise on TheSamba.com

Wheels and Tires...compiling a list...ever so slowly
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3 Next

	Forum Index -> Thing/Type 181	All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3 Next
Page 2 of 3